04 TL=recycled 3.2 liter V6+Accord platform. Yawn

[pudicus]

Finally happened to come across an honest Acura salesman who wasn't trying to spit-shine a turd http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. I asked-Isn't it true that '04 TL is based on Accord platform and uses a motor savaged from the old car. He says-the platform has been streched to accommodate size requirements, and the motor reworked to produce more oomph. BTW, I've driven '03 Accordion and it handled like a waterbed on wheels http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. He said that after Sep 15 they would go to a factory initiated intro to the new car and also will get to drive some competition iron for A/B comparo. I still can't understand what it was they were smoking when they decided to go after 530i with this thing http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. Not unlike the Taliban taking up muskets against B-52s, huh.

[NissT]

Finally happened to come across an honest Acura salesman who wasn't trying to spit-shine a turd http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. I asked-Isn't it true that '04 TL is based on Accord platform and uses a motor savaged from the old car. He says-the platform has been streched to accommodate size requirements, and the motor reworked to produce more oomph. BTW, I've driven '03 Accordion and it handled like a waterbed on wheels http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. He said that after Sep 15 they would go to a factory initiated intro to the new car and also will get to drive some competion iron for A/B comparo. I still can't understand what it was they were smoking when they decided to go after 530i with this thing http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. Not unlike the Taliban taking up muskets against B-52s, huh.



Yawn http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif
Yet another one of your "truthful Acura dealer” experiences. Aren’t you tired of starting these useless threads? At least be creative for God's sake! Look around bozo, you are not bringing anything new. What a boring person!

[jaje]

Finally happened to come across an honest Acura salesman who wasn't trying to spit-shine a turd http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. I asked-Isn't it true that '04 TL is based on Accord platform and uses a motor savaged from the old car. He says-the platform has been streched to accommodate size requirements, and the motor reworked to produce more oomph. BTW, I've driven '03 Accordion and it handled like a waterbed on wheels http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. He said that after Sep 15 they would go to a factory initiated intro to the new car and also will get to drive some competion iron for A/B comparo. I still can't understand what it was they were smoking when they decided to go after 530i with this thing http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. Not unlike the Taliban taking up muskets against B-52s, huh.

what car company doesn't share platforms and engines? this post is http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

[Nissan_Admirer]

I still can't understand what it was they were smoking when they decided to go after 530i with this thing http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. Not unlike the Taliban taking up muskets against B-52s, huh.



LMAO!!! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[M_TYPE_X]

Finally happened to come across an honest Acura salesman who wasn't trying to spit-shine a turd http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. I asked-Isn't it true that '04 TL is based on Accord platform and uses a motor savaged from the old car. He says-the platform has been streched to accommodate size requirements, and the motor reworked to produce more oomph. BTW, I've driven '03 Accordion and it handled like a waterbed on wheels http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. He said that after Sep 15 they would go to a factory initiated intro to the new car and also will get to drive some competion iron for A/B comparo. I still can't understand what it was they were smoking when they decided to go after 530i with this thing http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif. Not unlike the Taliban taking up muskets against B-52s, huh.



The updated TL is on the updated Accord platform and no the engine isn't new, just tweaked for more smoothness and power. How does this surprise anyone? You can stop being a nitwit now, we promise we won't miss the whining. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Did you drive an I4 or a V6 Accord?

[M_TYPE_X]

Acura salesman who wasn't trying to spit-shine a turd :



That doesn't sound like an Acura dealer staffperson! They tried to put out the RSX on me last Saturday as a "luxury coupe" ... I told them, it's just a fourth-generation Integra with major marketing spin. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[NissT]

Acura salesman who wasn't trying to spit-shine a turd :



That doesn't sound like an Acura dealer staffperson! They tried to put out the RSX on me last Saturday as a "luxury coupe" ... I told them, it's just a fourth-generation Integra with major marketing spin. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif



First, he didn't go to a dealer, it's his way of starting new Honda hashing threads. Just look at his previous posts. Second, what did he even expect? Did he expect the dealer would tell him that this TL is based on a unique platform with unique engine?

[jochi]

I think what gets ppl going off against the TL is that the platform is made for a FF family sedan. There is a question of legitimacy. Everyone shares platforms, but Infiniti use of platform sharing in their G and FX series utilises a sportcar's FR platform as opposed to Acura's approach. Perhaps the TL may surprise everyone, but on paper, it doesn't look too legitimate.

[pudicus]

Whenever I bring you Honda junkies outta closet-not that much of an effort really-you never fail to keep your blinders on. There's nothing wrong with platform sharing. The problem has to do with said platform delivering less than spirited drivng experience as already witnessed in Accord. Conversly, Nissan Altima despite its crap assembly and equally crap interior won't leave anybody guessing as to whether they're driving a FWD sports sedan. Thus when Altima lends its platform to Morano you can bet your ass that it too will be a good handler-at the very least. Does it take Philosophy Ph.D. to grasp that much http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif ? As far as sales people-I simply don't take shyte from them. In fact, I've dealt with more car salesmen and managers than many of you had hot dinners. And I let'em know upfront that I know my stuff to remove the last doubt. Therefore this nonsense about loyalty to one's own brand is a complete joke. The salesforce turnover in auto retail being what it is perfectly illustrates why 70% of salesmen are in it only for the $$$. Today they sell Saab, tomorrow Acura, the next day BMW. BTW, it's amusing to watch how rapidly Acura salesmen went from lauding TSX's 15K units per year supply as insurance against quick depreciation to now openly beetching about morons at the corporate who cooked up that scheme. Why ? Because people come in hoping to find a half-decent selection of cars, but instead are given: Plan A-special order and wait 3 months; Plan B-order a dealer swap which too is time-consuming and isn't unlike searching for a black mouse in a dark room. You never know what you may end up with. Therefore many people get frustrated, say-just shove it, and move up to Audi, BMW and Infiniti all of which are in plentiful supply. And a lost sale=$$$ going into some other dealer's pocket. Then again, those who step-up to the TSX from Escorts and Plymouth Horizons may not mind waiting 90 days http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. Frankly, the alarm bells should've gone off after Acura released its TL which with identical content and a $10K lower sticker instantly started to eat into the sales of RL. A pity, really, because in comparison to that junker the RL has Bentley-grade assembly quality and is consistently rated as #3 most reliable car sold in N.A. after the big Lexus and Q45. I just can't seem to comprehend what brand of glue they were sniffing when they decided to price it at $46K http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif.

[CPV35SukairainKupe]

Wait, doesn't the new TL have 300hp, AWD and built on new platform? I thought that was the case when they first introduced the car. It's kind of sad to see car companies keep showing these flashy concepts and then 'downgrade' to production models. Infiniti has my respect in that regard, look at the G35C, it pretty much went from the NYIAS show floor to dealerships 7 months later without any major changes. (Unless you count driver memory seats and such)

[limits_at_infiniti]

Wait, doesn't the new TL have 300hp, AWD and built on new platform? I thought that was the case when they first introduced the car. It's kind of sad to see car companies keep showing these flashy concepts and then 'downgrade' to production models. Infiniti has my respect in that regard, look at the G35C, it pretty much went from the NYIAS show floor to dealerships 7 months later without any major changes. (Unless you count driver memory seats and such)



and the sport badges and aluminum pedals and doggy door

[Nissan_Admirer]

Wait, doesn't the new TL have 300hp, AWD and built on new platform?



That's the Honda fanatics' version of the hype. I guess when the truth came out, those same fanatics went away quietly. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[FanaticZ]

naa, no specs for the concept tl were released, only gizmos. using the accord platform is a realistic question/complaint. they're trying to go up against a 44k 530i platform, designed for the 40k segment, using a version of the accord platform.

[M_TYPE_X]

Pudicus is a whiner plain and simple. It was announced that the TSX would only be coming in limited imported quanitities, but there's no options for the car other than transmission and navigation system, so your only issue is finding the color you want.

The Civic and Accord platforms carry Honda pretty well. The TL is meant to attract both Amerilux and Eurolux (Cadillac AND BMW) type buyers as well as people stepping up from Accords, so... what is here to talk about? If you want FR go over to BMW or Infiniti.

Salesstaff range from jerks to semieducated to spectacular. They are people and come in all kinds of types.

[limits_at_infiniti]

while all that you said is fine, the tl is suppose to be a sports sedan or atleast the type s version, so why the hell is it on a swiss cheese platform and labelled a sports sedan? at most honda is just fooling people

[Nismo]

Doesn't the new TL have 300hp, AWD and built on new platform?


You may have confused rumours about the TL with those of the RL.

[M_TYPE_X]

while all that you said is fine, the tl is suppose to be a sports sedan or atleast the type s version, so why the hell is it on a swiss cheese platform and labelled a sports sedan? at most honda is just fooling people



Toyota and Nissan marketing have tried to sell the Camry and Altima as "sport sedans," and of course the Mazda 6. This is not a Honda-only phenomenon.

Honda sells FF sport sedans. Don't like them? Then just ignore them.

[pudicus]

" They are people and come in all kinds of types. "


Is that a direct translation from Finnish ? Also, what gives you the impression that I'm whining ? I'd call that-observations with a pinch of irony http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif.

[NissT]

Whenever I bring you Honda junkies outta closet-not that much of an effort really-you never fail to keep your blinders on. There's nothing wrong with platform sharing. The problem has to do with said platform delivering less than spirited drivng experience as already witnessed in Accord. Conversly, Nissan Altima despite its crap assembly and equally crap interior won't leave anybody guessing as to whether they're driving a FWD sports sedan. Thus when Altima lends its platform to Morano you can bet your ass that it too will be a good handler-at the very least. Does it take Philosophy Ph.D. to grasp that much http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif ?



Woooow http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Platform alone will not give you good handling. Does it take Philosophy Ph.D. to grasp that much http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif ? It's also suspension tuning and wheels/tires. Pick up April issue of MT and read review of Accord/Altima/Camry. (I drove I4 Altima and drive Accord sometimes, no significant difference at all). There is a small gap between Accord and Altima in terms of performance and it will be even smaller if the tires weren't so crapy as on all Hondas. Sport tune the suspension, i.e. Accord 6-speed and there is no more gap. Open your eyes a bit wider, try to look outside your "sports sedan Altima" world.

[2001_S15]

It doesn't matter. Acura seems to be in a decline - headed the way Nissan was in the 1990s with competent but unexceptional products, and Infiniti is rising. What's the point of any of the Acura product line given the Honda equivalents, especially given Honda's recent upscale ambitions? Honda's FWD culture seems to have missed the realization (or all-along knowledge) among luxury car makers that RWD is best, RWD is what people want when looking for a sports sedan. Honda spends millions on trying to make their FWD cars as balanced as possible, but the sorry truth is a Cadillac CTS handles better than the CL-S.

[Nissan_Admirer]

while all that you said is fine, the tl is suppose to be a sports sedan or atleast the type s version, so why the hell is it on a swiss cheese platform and labelled a sports sedan? at most honda is just fooling people



Toyota and Nissan marketing have tried to sell the Camry and Altima as "sport sedans," and of course the Mazda 6. This is not a Honda-only phenomenon.

Honda sells FF sport sedans. Don't like them? Then just ignore them.



Where did you see this? I've never seen this before. I've only seen Toyota try to pass off the Camry as a sporty sedan but not sports sedan. This is all news to me.

[NissT]

Honda spends millions on trying to make their FWD cars as balanced as possible, but the sorry truth is a Cadillac CTS handles better than the CL-S.



The sorry truth is that Cadillac CTS is RWD and handles just as FWD CL Type-S. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[limits_at_infiniti]

while all that you said is fine, the tl is suppose to be a sports sedan or atleast the type s version, so why the hell is it on a swiss cheese platform and labelled a sports sedan? at most honda is just fooling people



Toyota and Nissan marketing have tried to sell the Camry and Altima as "sport sedans," and of course the Mazda 6. This is not a Honda-only phenomenon.

Honda sells FF sport sedans. Don't like them? Then just ignore them.



i guess thats ok if you want to compare a camry to an acura

[jaje]

i remember the old G20...a good handling car and infiniti bragging it as a fwd sports sedan...in fact it was fun to drive outside of the extremely underpowered engine and was of good quality...and low and behold it handled well and could stay with a 3 series in a corner (not beat it out though)...the tsx and the tl are just fwd counterparts...when acura says they are aiming for a bmw with a fwd car they are aiming for the feel (quality of materials and fun to drive quotient) not raw performance that some people judge a car by...infiniti took an altogether different route by stepping up to compete on the raw performance

rwd is a better racing platform than a fwd car (especially over 3,000lbs)...but fwd car is a better platform for daily driving and inclement weather b/c understeer is almost always the trait you want in your car in those conditions with an inexperience driver

[Not_Vin_Diesel]

Thus when Altima lends its platform to Morano you can bet your ass that it too will be a good handler-at the very least . . . As far as sales people-I simply don't take shyte from them. In fact, I've dealt with more car salesmen and managers than many of you had hot dinners. And I let'em know upfront that I know my stuff to remove the last doubt. Therefore this nonsense about loyalty to one's own brand is a complete joke. The salesforce turnover in auto retail being what it is perfectly illustrates why 70% of salesmen are in it only for the $$$. Today they sell Saab, tomorrow Acura, the next day BMW. BTW, it's amusing to watch how rapidly Acura salesmen went from lauding TSX's 15K units per year supply as insurance against quick depreciation to now openly beetching about morons at the corporate who cooked up that scheme. Why ? Because people come in hoping to find a half-decent selection of cars, but instead are given: Plan A-special order and wait 3 months; Plan B-order a dealer swap which too is time-consuming and isn't unlike searching for a black mouse in a dark room. You never know what you may end up with. Therefore many people get frustrated, say-just shove it, and move up to Audi, BMW and Infiniti all of which are in plentiful supply. And a lost sale=$$$ going into some other dealer's pocket. Then again, those who step-up to the TSX from Escorts and Plymouth Horizons may not mind waiting 90 days http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. Frankly, the alarm bells should've gone off after Acura released its TL which with identical content and a $10K lower sticker instantly started to eat into the sales of RL. A pity, really, because in comparison to that junker the RL has Bentley-grade assembly quality and is consistently rated as #3 most reliable car sold in N.A. after the big Lexus and Q45. I just can't seem to comprehend what brand of glue they were sniffing when they decided to price it at $46K http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif.


O.K., let's back up the bus just a bit. Not to be the English teacher, but if you're on a Nissan enthusiast site, the least you could do is spell the names of Nissan products correctly. Now, as far as your comments about salespeople - they're laughable. You are exactly the kind of mooch "us salespeople" love. I love the guys who tell me they've been buying cars since before I was born. How many transactions does that mean you've been a part of? If you bought a new car every year that I've walked the earth, it's only 27. Do you know how many clients I work with every month, sale or not? 50-75. And I'm supposed to be impressed cuz' you've bought 15 or 20 cars in your life? That's a decent sales month for good salespeople. In today's world of car sales, salespeople are trained to deal with the most educated of customers and most of us prefer them to those that aren't. I'd rather you see for yourself that I have $3,000 of markup in my car than for you to assume that there's $9,000. That way you don't feel robbed. Salesforce turnover does not necessarily mean turnover from one brand to another, but to further diminish your point, what profession outside of professional sports has a high turnover rate AND has employees that make exorbitant amounts of money? In other words, if the money was so dang good, why would the turnover rate be so high? For one, an average salesperson at a dealership will make $45-65K. For two, leaving one dealership to go to another of a different brand costs the salesperson time off the floor for training, and time away from health insurance. Overall, the money ain't the thing.

As MTX said, with the Honda brands in particular, finding the car you're looking for is pretty simple - do you want navigation or not? Other than that, as long as you don't want a color like "Pretty in Pink" or some oddball combination, it isn't that hard. With other more optionable brands, people either decide to take an extra option, or give up an option to get the color they want, or become open to color to get the option they want. Heck, even when you buy a house, if you're not building it yourself, you pick one out of what's available in the neighborhood you want to live in. Stop attacking the little engine that could (Acura.) I don't even dig their product a whole lot, but they make affordable, reliable cars that make a number of peopel happy. Get over it.

[CPV35SukairainKupe]

You tell 'em M Type X~

MTX drives an Integra, which is pretty much a recycled Civic with nice badge and funky headlights. The car handles very well even with an automatic transmission. So there is nothing wrong with recycling stuff~ my car is full of recycled parts, too - the chasis, suspension, engine, interior, brakes, pretty much everything but the exterior panels. I am still happy with it. The Acura Accord is a very nice car and if they can cut price by sharing parts, then good for them. I was hoping the TL would be a G35 competitor, but it seems that they are aiming for towards the ES300 or Audi A4.

[M_TYPE_X]

And the suspension and tuning are beyond what you'll find in a garden-variety Civic.

Honda doesn't sell a competitor to the G35. The Acura TSX is the ballpark in terms of 'general luxosport' appeal (along with Audi, BMW, Lexus, SAAB, Volvo, etc) but it's thousands less and not available in FR layour nor as a sport coupe.

[limits_at_infiniti]

i remember the old G20...a good handling car and infiniti bragging it as a fwd sports sedan...in fact it was fun to drive outside of the extremely underpowered engine and was of good quality...and low and behold it handled well and could stay with a 3 series in a corner (not beat it out though)...the tsx and the tl are just fwd counterparts...when acura says they are aiming for a bmw with a fwd car they are aiming for the feel (quality of materials and fun to drive quotient) not raw performance that some people judge a car by...infiniti took an altogether different route by stepping up to compete on the raw performance

rwd is a better racing platform than a fwd car (especially over 3,000lbs)...but fwd car is a better platform for daily driving and inclement weather b/c understeer is almost always the trait you want in your car in those conditions with an inexperience driver



My g20 with the high port use to beat 323's from a roll to 100 so they were pretty peppy

[pudicus]

Thus when Altima lends its platform to Morano you can bet your ass that it too will be a good handler-at the very least . . . As far as sales people-I simply don't take shyte from them. In fact, I've dealt with more car salesmen and managers than many of you had hot dinners. And I let'em know upfront that I know my stuff to remove the last doubt. Therefore this nonsense about loyalty to one's own brand is a complete joke. The salesforce turnover in auto retail being what it is perfectly illustrates why 70% of salesmen are in it only for the $$$. Today they sell Saab, tomorrow Acura, the next day BMW. BTW, it's amusing to watch how rapidly Acura salesmen went from lauding TSX's 15K units per year supply as insurance against quick depreciation to now openly beetching about morons at the corporate who cooked up that scheme. Why ? Because people come in hoping to find a half-decent selection of cars, but instead are given: Plan A-special order and wait 3 months; Plan B-order a dealer swap which too is time-consuming and isn't unlike searching for a black mouse in a dark room. You never know what you may end up with. Therefore many people get frustrated, say-just shove it, and move up to Audi, BMW and Infiniti all of which are in plentiful supply. And a lost sale=$$$ going into some other dealer's pocket. Then again, those who step-up to the TSX from Escorts and Plymouth Horizons may not mind waiting 90 days http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. Frankly, the alarm bells should've gone off after Acura released its TL which with identical content and a $10K lower sticker instantly started to eat into the sales of RL. A pity, really, because in comparison to that junker the RL has Bentley-grade assembly quality and is consistently rated as #3 most reliable car sold in N.A. after the big Lexus and Q45. I just can't seem to comprehend what brand of glue they were sniffing when they decided to price it at $46K http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif.


O.K., let's back up the bus just a bit. Not to be the English teacher, but if you're on a Nissan enthusiast site, the least you could do is spell the names of Nissan products correctly. Now, as far as your comments about salespeople - they're laughable. You are exactly the kind of mooch "us salespeople" love. I love the guys who tell me they've been buying cars since before I was born. How many transactions does that mean you've been a part of? If you bought a new car every year that I've walked the earth, it's only 27. Do you know how many clients I work with every month, sale or not? 50-75. And I'm supposed to be impressed cuz' you've bought 15 or 20 cars in your life? That's a decent sales month for good salespeople. In today's world of car sales, salespeople are trained to deal with the most educated of customers and most of us prefer them to those that aren't. I'd rather you see for yourself that I have $3,000 of markup in my car than for you to assume that there's $9,000. That way you don't feel robbed. Salesforce turnover does not necessarily mean turnover from one brand to another, but to further diminish your point, what profession outside of professional sports has a high turnover rate AND has employees that make exorbitant amounts of money? In other words, if the money was so dang good, why would the turnover rate be so high? For one, an average salesperson at a dealership will make $45-65K. For two, leaving one dealership to go to another of a different brand costs the salesperson time off the floor for training, and time away from health insurance. Overall, the money ain't the thing.

As MTX said, with the Honda brands in particular, finding the car you're looking for is pretty simple - do you want navigation or not? Other than that, as long as you don't want a color like "Pretty in Pink" or some oddball combination, it isn't that hard. With other more optionable brands, people either decide to take an extra option, or give up an option to get the color they want, or become open to color to get the option they want. Heck, even when you buy a house, if you're not building it yourself, you pick one out of what's available in the neighborhood you want to live in. Stop attacking the little engine that could (Acura.) I don't even dig their product a whole lot, but they make affordable, reliable cars that make a number of peopel happy. Get over it.


You kids never cease to crack me up. So let's just break down your babble uhh... I meant gem of a post.
What does English have to do with anything when " murano " is a word of latin origin in the 1st place. Besides, I wasn't warned we were at Spelling Bee http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. Now, you were able to move a few Cavaliers off the lot. Am I supposed to suddenly become misty-eyed, or something ? Also, since when talking to X number of salesmen and/or managers automatically translates into identical number of cars purchased ? How about this revolutionary scenario ? I may from time to time assist a friend or family with purchase of a new vehicle to ensure the sleazeball dealer doesn't bleed them dry on price or scare them into buying useless dogshyte like LoJack, or " croak and choke " , or " rust and dust ". Even though I'm not the one buying the car, it still counts as my having dealt with the dealer since I do all the talking , doesn't it http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif Recently I spoke with M-B salesman who's been there since the early 1990s which in dealer years is a lifetime. I asked how difficult it was to locate a car with A, B, C and D options. He says-I don't think they come that way. I said-let's go look at what you got. And the 1st car be bump into on the lot is exactly what I asked for. So when a veteran salesman is out to lunch, is it any wonder that 30% of the force generates 80% of all sales. Some " trained professionals ", huh.

[Slack00]

It doesn't matter. Acura seems to be in a decline - headed the way Nissan was in the 1990s with competent but unexceptional products, and Infiniti is rising. What's the point of any of the Acura product line given the Honda equivalents, especially given Honda's recent upscale ambitions? Honda's FWD culture seems to have missed the realization (or all-along knowledge) among luxury car makers that RWD is best, RWD is what people want when looking for a sports sedan. Honda spends millions on trying to make their FWD cars as balanced as possible, but the sorry truth is a Cadillac CTS handles better than the CL-S.



Good observation.... I'll jump on that band wagon.

And yes, the CTS does handle better than the CL-S.

Having said all that, I'm still trying to convince my twin brother to buy a 3.2CL Type S...given its unpopularity, he should be able to get a really good deal on a new or used one. Its still a pretty awesome car, especially with the 6 speed.

[Nissan_Admirer]

It doesn't matter. Acura seems to be in a decline - headed the way Nissan was in the 1990s with competent but unexceptional products, and Infiniti is rising. What's the point of any of the Acura product line given the Honda equivalents, especially given Honda's recent upscale ambitions? Honda's FWD culture seems to have missed the realization (or all-along knowledge) among luxury car makers that RWD is best, RWD is what people want when looking for a sports sedan. Honda spends millions on trying to make their FWD cars as balanced as possible, but the sorry truth is a Cadillac CTS handles better than the CL-S.



Good observation.... I'll jump on that band wagon.

And yes, the CTS does handle better than the CL-S.

Having said all that, I'm still trying to convince my twin brother to buy a 3.2CL Type S...given its unpopularity, he should be able to get a really good deal on a new or used one. Its still a pretty awesome car, especially with the 6 speed.





It's a pretty awesome car until a CTS pulls up behind it! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[limits_at_infiniti]

minus a little torque steer, why would i buy an 03 tl-s over an 03 maxima ?

[Nismo]

minus a little torque steer, why would i buy an 03 tl-s over an 03 maxima ?

Better dealers, for one thing.

[2001_S15]

minus a little torque steer, why would i buy an 03 tl-s over an 03 maxima ?



"a little torque steer?"

Obviously your test drive was more sedate than mine.

la la la VROOM HOLY CRAP swerve.

dealer: "yeah, we had a bit of a problem with the torque steer, Nissan tried their best to correct it but... yaknow."

yeah, they tried REAL hard.

[limits_at_infiniti]

minus a little torque steer, why would i buy an 03 tl-s over an 03 maxima ?



"a little torque steer?"

Obviously your test drive was more sedate than mine.

la la la VROOM HOLY CRAP swerve.

dealer: "yeah, we had a bit of a problem with the torque steer, Nissan tried their best to correct it but... yaknow."

yeah, they tried REAL hard.



LOL no no, i was all over the place too, but the TL-S didnt stay planted either. I compared the H-LSD to teh TL-S and the while the TL-S had less torque steer it wasnt to far from the H-LSD maxima.

so thats what i ment by minus the little torque steer over the TL-S

[limits_at_infiniti]

minus a little torque steer, why would i buy an 03 tl-s over an 03 maxima ?

Better dealers, for one thing.



a better deal or better dealer .... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif
hard choice

[CoCo_PuFf]

he must have meant better dealers cause the TL certainly ain't a better deal than the Maxima.....so far I still don't think the new TL is a better deal than the new Maxima. the Maxima simply has more content (so far, but we'll see)

about the dealers. In my neck of the woods the Nissan dealers are usually really good because of the simple fact that most of them are joined with Infiniti dealers. brsides, that's a sh!tty excuse to buy a car. If purchasing a car came down to dealer service and experience the we would all be driving Infinitis, Saturns and Lexi....not Acuras.

[Nismo]

The Maxima is a good car. The TL is a good car. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Why do you folks hate Acura so much? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[2001_S15]

The Maxima is a good car. The TL is a good car. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Why do you folks hate Acura so much? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



Because they suck? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've no doubt the Acura line is good for most people. I'm not most people. Nor are a lot of the people on this forum. You just can't beat a RWD car for handling and driving enjoyment, and arguing any differently is just a waste of time. Throwing horsepower at a car doesn't help either, see Maxima torque steer. FWIW I wouldn't buy one of those either http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[pudicus]

The Maxima is a good car. The TL is a good car. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Why do you folks hate Acura so much? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



Because they suck? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've no doubt the Acura line is good for most people. I'm not most people. Nor are a lot of the people on this forum. You just can't beat a RWD car for handling and driving enjoyment, and arguing any differently is just a waste of time. Throwing horsepower at a car doesn't help either, see Maxima torque steer. FWIW I wouldn't buy one of those either http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif


You nailed it. More HP for FWD car shouldn't always imply torque-steer galore. If Audi or even crappy Saab can have overengineered front suspensions on their FWD vehicles that allows them to be virtually free from it, why can't Nissan and Acura ? From day one Acura has been blowing smoke up everybody's ass with its TL-is-a-poor-man's-BMW campaign which of course was a complete joke. Nobody who knows what day of the week it is got fooled. I can't think of a single ex-BMW owner who when being in the market went ahead and purchased that car. But I do know of quite a few ex-Accord and Integra people as well as scores of FOBs who grabbed it without any hestitation. The latter group being under the illusion that they were somehow acquirng a status symbol and a sign of having made it. Gimmie a frigging break here http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

[M_TYPE_X]

But I do know of quite a few ex-Accord and Integra people as well as scores of FOBs who grabbed it without any hestitation. The latter group being under the illusion that they were somehow acquirng a status symbol and a sign of having made it. Gimmie a frigging break here http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.



hahahaha losers http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Nissan_Admirer]

The Maxima is a good car. The TL is a good car. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Why do you folks hate Acura so much? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



Acura = fake luxury = poor man's idea of luxury = a complete joke

Need we go on about Acura? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CoCo_PuFf]

Acura = fake luxury = poor man's idea of luxury = a complete joke

Need we go on about Acura? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif




http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid50/pccad1430660ec98c2855f8bd206ee381/fcaf3d07.gif

no: Acura = Luxury poser car = bought by ricers who think they've made it = really they're buying an Accord/civic with a star terk symbol http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif............beam me up Scotty!lol

[M_TYPE_X]

http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif