"Detroit Can Win!"

[M_TYPE_X]

Walsh piece. Bleh.

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/walsh29_20030829.htm

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

The problem is the damn union workers.

[M_TYPE_X]

The problem is the damn union workers.



The refrain to your new album coming out this Fall?

[Nismo]

What a cute pep talk that article was: no meat, only rhetoric--much like the "new" GM.

[Nismo]

The problem is the damn union workers.


Here is a quote from my Mechanical Design textbook: "Quality cannot be manufactured into a product unless it is designed into it."

Don't get me wrong, UAW workers have proven to be less efficient (in a cost-benefit analysis) than non-UAW workers, but focusing on the Union masks the bigger problem. Good design with inefficient manufacturing is still better than bad design with efficient manufacturing--or so I'm being taught.

[Irie_eyes]

Good design with inefficient manufacturing is still better than bad design with efficient manufacturing--or so I'm being taught.



That makes sense. But if paying union workers means paying less to your designers/engineers or hiring good ones, or for R&D, then you can still blame unions (which I do, unless designers/engineers are union, then they think "why work/think harder? I get paid well and have job security...)

[M_TYPE_X]

Yeah, Nismo, sort of like the Michigan Football game on TV this afternoon... U-Michigan is creaming Central Michigan, and Chrysler-Jeep ads come on every 12.5 minutes with "$99/month" Sebring LX lease announcements.

Pandering to themselves... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I had classes here in engineering my first year in the Chrysler Center auditorium. Nice building in a "boring industrial architecture" sort of way, or in a "Chrysler spends its money everywhere except on its automotive products" sort of way. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

These guys aren't coming back and they wont win.

[delerium75]

My prediction is that GM cars will be notably better than they were though still not as good as european and japanese cars. Perhaps one or two stand-outs (CTS-V). I think they're aiming for the "lowest common deminator" and just barely reaching the same level as Korean manufacturers--and they're improving every year as it is. As a note on unions, how fast the XLR should be was in part, decided by the unions. Apparently some union folk were fuming at the prospect of a caddy that was faster than the Corvette and in a move by higher-ups to help foster a better relationship between the unions and management, the unions were involved in this question. It's slower than the 'vette. So, here you have a $70K car that does have some scoot but it could have been faster and a better stand-out against its competition.

[Irie_eyes]

Unions were involved?
I thought it was just the development teams...
Or are you saying the development teams are union also...

[delerium75]

It was an article in Car and Driver I believe from a few months ago...apparently the unions, as well as the development people had input on how fast the XLR should be.

[FanaticZ]

i thought the xlr was faster than its competition, anywho i'd expect the xlrV to be the car with the juice. doesn't make much sense anyways considering a ctsV is most likely going to be faster than a base vette using the z06 engine.

[FanaticZ]

i think cadillac will be on top of its game again in 5 years, don't know bout the rest.

[M_TYPE_X]

Not the UAW in particular, but everyone who is hyperpro-Chevrolet got pissy over the "oh no Cadillac that is better than a Chevrolet?!" thing GM was planning.

Detroit can't win if they don't follow the rules they set for themselves.

[Sorin]

F*ck unions. They are all fine and dandy for something like a grocery store or Costco or something, but in automotive manufacturing? Sorry, no, kiss my a$$. You don't get overpaid, then you go on strike to force it out of them. Then you get a guaranteed raise at regular intervals. Plus you get benefits. Plus there's retirement crap. On top of all that, it's harder than sh!t to fire you so you can sit there whacking off barely doing your job and getting aforementioned pay and benefits without much worry about losing your job.

All that gravy for you and all those headaches for your bosses just so you can do something 90% of the population can do (building cars that is, not designing or engineering)?

WTF. Small wonder our cars over here suck ass when put side by side to most foreign cars.

I'll admit unions aren't the sole reason, but they sure as hell are a big part of it.

Speaking of unions: http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6352&sid=173&n=156.

What kind of crap is that? They just sit there thinking "Well let's see, since we can PWN any one of them, let's see who to target this time." This while they start making a monument to themselves.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What GM needs to do is fire all their union employees. These guys are getting overpaid to build cars when anyone can be hired and trained for it. No doubt Unions are the main reason why american cars are unreliable. I bought a 1995 Oldsmobile Bravada brand new and within the first 6 months that thing broke down on me several times. In the end I returned that peice of crap and got myself a used Toyota Landcruiser that never gave me a problem the entire time I owned it. GM and Ford better shape up or their never going to catch up and end up going bankrupt. Long Live Nissan!!!