If the pathfinder isnt getting axed why is the QX4

[G35RIDER]

If the Pathfinder isn't getting the axe with the introduction of the Armada why is the QX4 getting axed with the intro of the QX56. I mean if the DuneHawk concept becomes the Pathfinder I wouldn't mind seeing an Infiniti version.

[GroovinGTR]

It does make you wonder. I mean the QX4 was supposed to be dropped because of the "No more rebadge Nissans" line, but along comes the simple rebadge of the Pathfinder Armanda into the QX56. So looks like the line does not apply to SUVs.

I think its almost a given that Infiniti will bring back the QX4 in 2005 (probably as a QX45.) It's relatively cheap to rebadge, the profit margin is huge, and the QX4 has a big following seeing as it sold 20,000 a year in its heyday. The market for a midsize truck-based luxury SUV is kinda slim right now with only the Lincoln Aviator and Lexus GX470, but Infiniti has left a lot of room in their line-up given the FX's offroad inabilities and small size.

[shaun]

It does make you wonder. I mean the QX4 was supposed to be dropped because of the "No more rebadge Nissans" line, but along comes the simple rebadge of the Pathfinder Armanda into the QX56. So looks like the line does not apply to SUVs.

I think its almost a given that Infiniti will bring back the QX4 in 2005 (probably as a QX45.) It's relatively cheap to rebadge, the profit margin is huge, and the QX4 has a big following seeing as it sold 20,000 a year in its heyday. The market for a midsize truck-based luxury SUV is kinda slim right now with only the Lincoln Aviator and Lexus GX470, but Infiniti has left a lot of room in their line-up given the FX's offroad inabilities and small size.



if they do make a rebadged version of the upcoming pathfinder it will no longer have the qx designation as that will be used to describe the full size suv.

p.s. the aviator has been axed.

[_Eric_]

..and the QX4 has a big following seeing as it sold 20,000 a year in its heyday.



And you think that is a lot? That's less than what the FX sells now, and the FX is still shy of it's sales target (30,000/yr). The QX4 was never a sales winner compared to the competition (Lexus RX - almost 100k/yr, BMW X5 - 60k+/yr, etc.)

The only reason that Infiniti is "breaking it's promise" of not selling anymore rebadged Nissans is because of the unique situation with the luxury full-size SUV market. EVERYONE just rebadges lesser full-sizers, EVERYONE:

Lexus --> LX470 - Land Cruiser
Lincoln --> Navigator - Expedition
Cadillac -> Escallade - Tahoe

It is EXTREMELY profitable to do this, so why should Nissan make any apologies for "breaking" a promise they made (which, by the way, they have made good on EVERY OTHER vehicle they have brought to market since they made the promise).

The QX4 is too much in a mainstream market to just rebadge a P-Finder and try to pass it off as an Infiniti. It didn't work before (sales-wise) and it won't work again. Plus it no longer fits into the brand image of sporty vehicles (even the FX spanks most others' sports sedans). Basically, the QX56 can be viewed as an exception to the norm. It's too profitable a market to ignore, and if it makes Nissan/Infiniti a boat load of money, which they can reinvest into sports cars and such, I'm all for it.

[Umi_R98]

only designation that makes sense is an MX45 or MX35 that i can think of. It'd probably be better if it was limited to the V6 only, as no one really needs a V8 mid-sized SUV. I'm sure the the VQ is up to it.

[GroovinGTR]

And you think that is a lot? That's less than what the FX sells now, and the FX is still shy of it's sales target (30,000/yr). The QX4 was never a sales winner compared to the competition (Lexus RX - almost 100k/yr, BMW X5 - 60k+/yr, etc.)


20,000 a year for a rebadge is still a lot. I'm sure the profit margin on a QX4 (if sold at MSRP) is significantly higher than that of an FX35. Lexus does it with the RX and GX - the GX is only expected to sell about 20,000 a year.

I'm not for a QX4 replacement, but it makes sense. Think about it - the QX56 will start at least at $45k. There needs to be some sort of bridge to such a premium vehicle (remember Infiniti is still struggling on the high end side) and its hard to imagine the FX35 being that bridge. Plus the FX is very geared toward one specific side of the entry-level luxury SUV market - a market made up primarily of yuppie soccer moms haugling around kids where room and 3rd row seats are more important than 0-60 times.

"Plus the FX is very geared toward one specific side of the entry-level luxury SUV market - a market made up primarily of yuppie soccer moms haugling around kids where room and 3rd row seats are more important than 0-60 times."

i think i partially agree, the cross over market is for the conveniant use of space, comfort, and utility, while the fx meets that, its still falls short of the larger mdx, rx and other in size and stuff, its more of a sports car

what is needed is a gx competitor, that market makes sense and is a good path for infinti, maybe it could even start around 40k and be mroe of a explorer sized suv than the sporty lil fx

[_Eric_]

20,000 a year for a rebadge is still a lot. I'm sure the profit margin on a QX4 (if sold at MSRP)



You hit the nail on the head: "If sold at MSRP". That almost never happened. It's the same thing with the I30/I35 over the last few years. People who argue for a replacement for the I35 keep quoting the sales numbers over the last year or two, but fail to realize that even though they are half-way decent, they were achieved through lots of incentives and dealerships whoring them out at or close to invoice. The same thing is true about the QX4. They are vehicles from the old regime that never could sell for MSRP on their own merits. This is why they (QX4 & I35) are both dissappearing. They do not portray the image of the new Infiniti, they only bring back memories of former Infiniti (not good).


I'm sure the profit margin on a QX4 is significantly higher than that of an FX35



I wouldn't necessarily say that. Although the FX isn't a rebadge, it utilizes SIGNIFICANT parts sharing: Platform, Engine, Tranny, AWD system, basically most mechanical parts. And don't forget the QX4 had mostly unique sheet metal from the P-Finder, no cost savings there.


the GX is only expected to sell about 20,000 a year.



It also starts over $40k. The QX4 started in the low to mid $30k's and topped out in the low $40k's.


I'm not for a QX4 replacement, but it makes sense. Think about it - the QX56 will start at least at $45k. There needs to be some sort of bridge to such a premium vehicle (remember Infiniti is still struggling on the high end side) and its hard to imagine the FX35 being that bridge.



I don't agree there. Infiniti stated that they wanted to be the sportiest luxury brand out there, basically like BMW. Adding more SUV's won't accomplish that, especially traditional mid-size SUV's. I think the FX fits the bill perfectly for what Infiniti is trying to accomplish . Remember, it was Ghosn himself that said they want to make cars that are "NOT something for everyone, but everything for someone". I think the FX is the PERFECT portrayal of that statement.


Plus the FX is very geared toward one specific side of the entry-level luxury SUV market - a market made up primarily of yuppie soccer moms haugling around kids where room and 3rd row seats are more important than 0-60 times.



I understand what you are saying about the make up of the market, but basically I just refer back to my previous remark of really catering to that niche market, which I think is bigger than you think. Although the FX is not quite hitting it's target sales, it is very close (~26k extrapolated over a full year at it's current pace). I think this justifies it's place on the Infiniti ladder enough.

sales are still growing, alot of people want them and will buy them they are just waitin till they can, ( i know a person whos buyin it and another who thinkin about it and many who are lookin into it, or would want it when they get the money

[GroovinGTR]

I don't agree there. Infiniti stated that they wanted to be the sportiest luxury brand out there, basically like BMW. Adding more SUV's won't accomplish that, especially traditional mid-size SUV's. I think the FX fits the bill perfectly for what Infiniti is trying to accomplish . Remember, it was Ghosn himself that said they want to make cars that are "NOT something for everyone, but everything for someone". I think the FX is the PERFECT portrayal of that statement.


Then why does the sportiest brand have a lumbering 2.5 ton behometh of a truck-based SUV coming to dealerships in spring 2004? True it's a profitable market, but you don't see BMW, Audi, and Acura sacrifying their sporty images by producing one. So nobody can really predict what Infiniti is thinking.

[Infiniti_lover]

Actully, BMW has plans, so I've read, to produce a Range rover badged as the X7. To go along with their X3 and X5.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hopefully, the Qx4 does return. I loved driving it. Knowing Nissan though, they probably will bring it back but are keeping it secret like they are with the Qx56

[GroovinGTR]

Actully, BMW has plans, so I've read, to produce a Range rover badged as the X7. To go along with their X3 and X5.


Those plans have always been for a larger car-based SUV on the lines of a larger scale X5.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

When will Mercedes come out with one>?

[_Eric_]

Then why does the sportiest brand have a lumbering 2.5 ton behometh of a truck-based SUV coming to dealerships in spring 2004? True it's a profitable market, but you don't see BMW, Audi, and Acura sacrifying their sporty images by producing one. So nobody can really predict what Infiniti is thinking.



The difference is that they are introducing SUV models into market segments they are not already in. The Cayenne is Porsche's first SUV. The new X3 is in a totally different segment AND price range than the X5. Those make sense. Infiniti already has the FX in the midsize segment and price range. Guess where a new QX4 would be: same EXACT midsize segment and price range as the FX. Do you see my point?

You could argue to death that they are two VERY different types of vehicles, and they are. But the problem is that the average consumer can't see that. They only see size and price.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

You coudln't take the Fx off road and and not everyone can afford the Qx56 so they buy the Qx4.

[_Eric_]

You coudln't take the Fx off road and and not everyone can afford the Qx56 so they buy the Qx4.



Yeah, and everyone buys $40k+ LUXURY SUV's to go off-roading http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

[psriniv]

Even if the QX4 was brought back (I prefer the dunehawk concept styling for this comeback) it would certainly have its own market share. The appearance of the FX is certainly futuristic, but not everyone likes it. The rock solid look and feel of the QX4 are missed. I have seen a couple of people move away to 4Runners since, the QX4 is not available and FX did not fit their taste.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hopefully that concept will become the future Qx4.

[G35RIDER]

Hopefully that concept will become the future Qx4.


I thought you didn'tlike it?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I am not too excited about the exterior but I love the interior. Infiniti needs a Qx4 because a lot of people are driving those around here. So I do see a market for it.

[dfw_danny]

The QX4 won't be back, the Pathfinder will not be coming as an Infiniti, the Dunehawk will not be coming as an Infiniti. All Infiniti has planned is the FX35, FX45 and QX56.

Infiniti in their new business plan (announced several years ago) has been executed, it doing better than expected. Their plan was never to be a manufacturer for everyone but rather to become a tier luxury 1 manufacturer, provide quality products (#1 in J.D. Powers Customer Satisfaction) priced under the competition.

[M_TYPE_X]

Agreed; we don't need to see every nonlux vehicle rebadged as a "luxury" (price-hiked) model.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Infiniti has a full size now but they still need a smaller at the same time. Qx4 will return in 2 years.

[_Eric_]

Infiniti has a full size now but they still need a smaller at the same time. Qx4 will return in 2 years.



And you know this...how? Riiiiiigghht. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif Stop spreading false information, that's how these forums get ruined.

[Umi_R98]

Infiniti has a full size now but they still need a smaller at the same time. Qx4 will return in 2 years.
QX designation is ment for the flagship SUV, so we get the QX56. I can live with the FX45 in my garage rather than a QX4. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My reason for the return of the Qx4 is because I need a suv that can off road and still keep it lux. At the same time I don't want to pay 50k for it. A Qx4 that starts off at maybe 35k.

[GroovinGTR]

Infiniti in their new business plan (announced several years ago) has been executed, it doing better than expected. Their plan was never to be a manufacturer for everyone but rather to become a tier luxury 1 manufacturer, provide quality products (#1 in J.D. Powers Customer Satisfaction) priced under the competition.


The new business plans also said no rebadges, which has now been amended. Unless you count Cadillac as a Tier 1 luxury company (which even Bob Lutz can't convince me of) than no other company has a hulking full-size luxury SUV. The QX56 will stand out like a sore thumb in the line-up all by its lonesome. The FX is so skewd to one side of the market there must be an alternative to it and that is what a QX4 replacement would bring plus it would make a nice step-up to the much more expensive QX56. Infiniti may be going after BMW, but they still feel Lexus' huge vanilla shadow. I would be very surprised if the Infiniti line-up did not have 3 SUVs when all is said and done. Lexus has already tested this formula and decided the GX470 was a must.

i think its a must for the qx to stick out, wouldn't it be weird to see a huge fx, i dont think saoemthin like that would look good,

and yes infiniti should have 3 suvs, and the gcx by the way sell over 2k a month which aint bad at all

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Infiniti needs a third suv hopefully that will be based on the future Pathfinder. Who knows...the concept we saw might turn out to be the future Qx4.

[Milesblue42]

I agree and disagree, I like the INFINITI game plan, but the QX56 is at one extreme $50,000.00 to $60,000.00 ( Luxury, High Tech Features and more cargo space) and the FX35/45 $40,000.00 +(sports car handling, limited cargo space) Where is the middle ground ?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

A Nissan based Qx4 starting at 35k would be nice. I believe they are coming out with another suv in 2006. This might turn out to be the future Qx4

[222Max]

Whether Infiniti gets a third SUV is anyone's guess. I wouldn't be surprised either way. The QX56 will probably be the best performing mega-ute out there so that does fulfill Infiniti's perforamnce mantra.

At the same time SUVs are what are giving Lexus the sales lead they have. Cars sales are decent but it's the SUV selection that is keeping them in the dough. Infiniti and everyone else certainly realizes the business sense that Lexus is practicing. There are predictions that the SUV market will soften over the next few years. If that proves to be then who knows what the next big thing will be. Maybe more hybrid vehicles like the Triant.

[beagles]

My reason for the return of the Qx4 is because I need a suv that can off road and still keep it lux. At the same time I don't want to pay 50k for it. A Qx4 that starts off at maybe 35k.



I second this... i am single & only want 1 vehicle... i want the daily driver to have some luxury & be able to be the weekend warrior in the dirt! There are some of us that would/do take our $40-50,000 vehicle off road. Check out pics on the web of some of the places the new $40-50,000 VW Touareg is being taken.
I think the QX name is taken, maybe the new midsize should be MX35 & MX45? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[vqman]

i think the qx4 would be fine with the 4.5L V8 found in the FX45, but the FX35 & FX45 are probably the reasons why the QX4 is gone...

-vq

[psypher22]

The QX4 WILL be back though.

Infinit still needs to fill the gap left by the passing of the QX4.

Enter the Dunehawk concept.

It's common opinion that the Dunehawk will be the next Pathfinder. And with the next Pathfiinder will come the next Infiniti mid-size SUV.

i hypothesize that the new midsize SUV will be dubbed the JX series.

JX4 with a 4 liter V6 (the 4 liter V6 is actually going to be used) and a JX45 with the 4.5 liter V8.

[dmmattix]

I traded my G35 Sedan for one of the last QX4's about 4 months ago. It will probably be the last Infiniti I buy (I currently have an I30 and the QX4) unless they bring back something in the QX4 range. It is a bit dated but it rides great has room to put stuff in the back and I can actually get down to the lake without dragging something with it. My wife is actually driving it the most recently as we took a 5000 mile road trip shortly after getting the QX so I am running miles up on the I30. She even mentioned she would rather drive the QX than anything we have had in quite a while (G35, A4, I30, Explorer, Pathfinder, Maxima, Camry).

Neither of us were impressed with the FX initially and it really hasn't grown on us. I had hopes for the QX56 but they have softened the Armada waaay to much. I guess I really want/need something in the Pathfinder/QX4 size range. Hopefully Nissan/Infiniti will continue to be able to provide it for me. Otherwise....

Mike

[DesertRunner64]

Don't mind seeing a second generation QX4!!