More C6 Renderings from @ C/D & M/T

[Wahhaj]

http://www.fototime.com/004C9189C84C3EB/standard.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid91/pbd8899c1b5b402755f6c1a7246505abb/fa61fc0f.jpg

Source: Car & Driver Sports & GT Cars Forum

[scourge]

The Vette still needs to trim its ass down, but overall - I LOVE IT!

[_Nzo_]

Looks good, I really like the front signals.

[WhereHaveYouBeen]

Wow, more wrong speculation from MTX & Driver.

If that looks anything like it, then I'd have to say they killed the vette.

[M_TYPE_X]

Wow, more wrong speculation from MTX & Driver.

If that looks anything like it, then I'd have to say they killed the vette.



Doesn't look much different from the C5. Big whoop. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

[frontierq]

Photoshop http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

[Irie_eyes]

What gave that away, the part in the title "renderings"? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

['87 Sentra]

No, those have to be the real thing!!!!

[MiReLaNsKi]

No, those have to be the real thing!!!!



Sorry...a rendering is a rendering. It is just an attempt to give a the car before GM can.

['87 Sentra]

No, those have to be the real thing!!!!



Sorry...a rendering is a rendering. It is just an attempt to give a the car before GM can.


I know, I was just kidding http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SimpleS14]

ummm....do any of you guys remember the pics of the fully exposed C6?


LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THOSE RENDERINGS

[Wahhaj]

We did see those pics..however they were all from either the side, or front or rear side angle, never really from the front. These renderings do look like the exposed vehicle from the side. Ok maybe a little different, but they are RENDERINGS after all.

[G35RIDER]

There actualy was a pic that showed the front.

[Wahhaj]

Really! for God sake Post it man!

[SimpleS14]

true....the only thing I haven't seen yet are the headlights (kinda)...but still...its NOTHING like those renderings.

[G35RIDER]

Really! for God sake Post it man!


I'll post it as soon as I can.

[Vans]

I'm confused why magazines are still doing renderings when the actual car had pictures taken of it? Whats the point?

[SimpleS14]

I'm confused why magazines are still doing renderings when the actual car had pictures taken of it? Whats the point?



Because not everyone surfs the internet (or online forums) and if they (the magazines) post that guys pic...they will have to fork over some money...which I doubt they want to do.


Also don't forget that articles posted in a magazine were written months before the actual print out date of the magazine.

[Andre]

The mags went to press about a week before pics came out.sadly, mags won't give away the pictures since by the time next month's issues come out the car will have been unveiled.

[Umi_R98]

are you kidding...that's an awesome NSX!!!
sarcasm off/

[G35RIDER]

Really! for God sake Post it man!



Here they are
http://www.fastcarforum.com/forum/files/dsc00413.jpg

http://www.fastcarforum.com/forum/files/dsc00415.jpg

http://www.fastcarforum.com/forum/files/dsc00416.jpg

And the other non front pics
http://palmeter.com/C6Spy68.jpg

http://palmeter.com/C6Spy69.jpg

http://palmeter.com/C6Spy71.jpg

And the Hot Wheels C6 model packaging artwork...

http://palmeter.com/C6Spy73.jpg

[s13SRmadness]

the new corvette looks freakin' amazing!!!

[M_TYPE_X]

the new corvette looks freakin' amazing!!!




Actually, it just looks like a Corvette, updated for the George Bush II era.

[Nismo]

It looks like it has some 'snake' in its exterior design.

I guess with the mags now comparing cars like the Ford GT and Ferrari Challenge Stradale to the Dodge Viper (with the Vette not even allowed to compete) the GM guys have gotten a big dose of snake envy in addition to their already substantial prancing horse envy. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[M_TYPE_X]

It looks like it has some 'snake' in its exterior design.

I guess with the mags now comparing cars like the Ford GT and Ferrari Challenge Stradale to the Dodge Viper (with the Vette not even allowed to compete) the GM guys have gotten a big dose of snake envy in addition to their already substantial prancing horse envy. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Word here in Detroit is that a lot of first-gen Viper people left Chrysler and are now at GM working to launch the C6 Corvette.

[Nismo]

Word here in Detroit is that a lot of first-gen Viper people left Chrysler and are now at GM working to launch the C6 Corvette.



I hadn't heard about that, but one glance at the above pictures is pretty convincing. I do remember reading an interview with the Ford GT's lead designer (who also designed the Viper) where he talked about how similar the two projects were.

I would be most impressed if the new Corvette was released with 500 naturally-aspirated horsepower, but really, I'd rather just see it lose a few hundred pounds--enough to get it into the high 2xxx lb. range (2700 would be excellent, but anything 2900 or less would be good).

[M_TYPE_X]

Word here in Detroit is that a lot of first-gen Viper people left Chrysler and are now at GM working to launch the C6 Corvette.



I hadn't heard about that, but one glance at the above pictures is pretty convincing. I do remember reading an interview with the Ford GT's lead designer (who also designed the Viper) where he talked about how similar the two projects were.

I would be most impressed if the new Corvette was released with 500 naturally-aspirated horsepower, but really, I'd rather just see it lose a few hundred pounds--enough to get it into the high 2xxx lb. range (2700 would be excellent, but anything 2900 or less would be good).



One rumor is that they left and went to Ford to work on the GT, and the other is that they went to GM to work on the C6. Each is as credible as the other, and quite simply, it's possible that they did split up and go to both competitors.

[scourge]

I'd be happy too if the Vette lost some weight and trimmed down its big giant fat ass! 500hp would be amazing and also adding the option of AWD to lay down all that power would be cool too. I know people would decry such an option, but I'd just like to see it as just that, an option. 500hp and AWD - the Vette could really become a SUPER CAR.

[Umi_R98]

RWD for the Vette trust me on this...wouldn't have any other way.

The question now is did the Viper guys get axed by DC? or did they findout early enough to slither away to where their skills were needed.

[M_TYPE_X]

If they did not ... "slither away" [ http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ], they would have been axed. So it's either that or they were cut and told to get out of Auburn Hills.

[chiphead]

I'd be happy too if the Vette lost some weight and trimmed down its big giant fat ass! 500hp would be amazing and also adding the option of AWD to lay down all that power would be cool too. I know people would decry such an option, but I'd just like to see it as just that, an option. 500hp and AWD - the Vette could really become a SUPER CAR.



Keep smoking that good stuff. Vette is trying to stay (relatively) affordable, not become another Viper.

[scourge]

How would making AWD an OPTION be making the Vette another Viper? The ZR1 wasn't cheap. The ZO6 isn't being given away. Besides, GM has support from all over the world that could source parts capable of handlling an AWD setup. It would be a limited car anyway as I don't think many purists would opt for the ability to dominate at a road course.


Besides, the GTR was made AWD for less than $55,000USD when new so you're suggesting to me that GM can't do the same with all their part bins from across the globe? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[chiphead]

How would making AWD an OPTION be making the Vette another Viper? The ZR1 wasn't cheap. The ZO6 isn't being given away. Besides, GM has support from all over the world that could source parts capable of handlling an AWD setup. It would be a limited car anyway as I don't think many purists would opt for the ability to dominate at a road course.


Besides, the GTR was made AWD for less than $55,000USD when new so you're suggesting to me that GM can't do the same with all their part bins from across the globe? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif




The fact that you would even compare the JDM price of a GTR to the vette is telling of how little you know about cars.

[scourge]

Hahahaha! What a joke you are little boy. I have shown that GM has the resources while you have shown...well, you have shown that you are the one who doesn't know jack diddly [censored]. Thanks for playing now and don't forget to pick up you box of Rice-a-Roni on the way out. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

[chiphead]

Hahahaha! What a joke you are little boy. I have shown that GM has the resources while you have shown...well, you have shown that you are the one who doesn't know jack diddly [censored]. Thanks for playing now and don't forget to pick up you box of Rice-a-Roni on the way out. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif



The ZR1 sales dropped 600% 2 years after it came out (AKA not a good sign). The price of GTR in Japan has NO bearing whatsover on a car sold in US (aka the JDM price is usually about 5-10% cheaper than the same car sold in the States not to mention exchange rate fluctuations). It was never sold in the US in official capacity so the arguement is dumb anyway. AWD has never been mentioned, even as a rumor. You can't just "add it as an option" when the platform has been designed as RWD from the start w/o incurring significant R&D and retooling costs. And lastly, you wound't know what a car is if it hit you in the ass.

Lutz has hinted at a 600hp Vette in '06 but at a significant premium (almost $100k) and simple economics dictates that you sell more when it's cheaper. As an example, the Mustang sells in 2 months what it takes the Vette a year to accomplish.

I do hope you keep flapping your gum because it's been entertaining, if nothing else.

[M_TYPE_X]

I do hope you keep flapping your gum because it's been entertaining, if nothing else.



That it is!

[Slack00]

I would be most impressed if the new Corvette was released with 500 naturally-aspirated horsepower, but really, I'd rather just see it lose a few hundred pounds--enough to get it into the high 2xxx lb. range (2700 would be excellent, but anything 2900 or less would be good).



The C5 already weighs a relatively slim 3246 lbs, (~3150 for the Z06), and that is lighter than average out of the sportscars of its size. The good news is that the recent trend in sports cars has been to move away from the heavier GT cars of the 80s and technology laden cars of the 90s and GM has promised a lighter C6 (another 100lbs less or so, iirc). With less weight and more power it will definitely be a barn stormer.

<ul type="square[/img]SPORTSCAR......... WEIGHT (lbs)
Viper Gen 1.............~3500
Viper Gen II............~3350
911.........................~3000
911 Turbo...............~3400
Supra Turbo............~3500
RX7.........................~2800
R35 GT-R.................~3500
300ZX.....................~3400
350Z.......................~3200
C5 Corvette............~3250
C5 Corvette Z06.....~3150
C6 Corvette............~3150
C6 Corvette Z06.....~3050(?) [/list]

Reducing weight is a fairly hard obstacle for a car with the dimensions of something like a Corvette or Viper. We've even seen smaller cars GAIN weight over time (Miata) or are heavier than their dimensions suggest (350Z).

My nitpick is the increase in wheelbase. It already cruises very well, and its plenty roomy...why the wheelbase increase? At 40ft, the C5 turning circle is already annoyingly wide as it is. I hate seeing friggin full size trucks turn tighter circles than me. Although I doubt they'd ever add it (because of the weight and design costs), I'd welcome the addition of GM's Quadrasteer as an option to cut it down to 35 ft or less.

Speaking of 500 NA HP...I'm seriously considering an SLP LS1 head/cam package bolt-on that will bring my car up to 485 (dyno'd) horsepower. Thats a 175 horsepower increase from stock. Naturally aspirated. $2595. (Can probably find it cheaper on eBay). Ahhh...the beauty of displacement. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[scourge]

I do hope you keep flapping your gum because it's been entertaining, if nothing else.



Well, watching a grown man (supposedly?) throwing a temper tantrum online is infinitely more entertaining. I will ask for more of your bravado though as seeing your insecurity and immaturity is so damn fun to watch! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif

[Nismo]

Reducing weight is a fairly hard obstacle for a car with the dimensions of something like a Corvette or Viper. We've even seen smaller cars GAIN weight over time (Miata) or are heavier than their dimensions suggest (350Z). My nitpick is the increase in wheelbase...



I've heard the base C6 is supposed to perform as well as the current C5 Z06. Personally, I'm more into lightweight handlers, and am not exactly in GM's crosshairs for potential C6 buyers. In fact, when school is finally over, and I decide on my next vehicle purchase; at the moment it's a choice between a Shifter Kart or a Formula car... decisions, decisions. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

For a more pedestrian sports car, something to drive around town in, I tried thinking of what GM could do to get someone like me to buy their Corvette, but the only changes I can think of (mid-engine layout, smaller size, much lower weight, smaller lighter engine, etc.) would make the Corvette no longer a Corvette. In the end, the best they can probably do is appeal to their base and let other people, like me, admire the car for what it is even though we will never want to own one. I'm sure the new C6 will match this formula perfectly. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[M_TYPE_X]

I do hope you keep flapping your gum because it's been entertaining, if nothing else.



Well, watching a grown man (supposedly?) throwing a temper tantrum online is infinitely more entertaining. I will ask for more of your bravado though as seeing your insecurity and immaturity is so damn fun to watch! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif



Scourge would last 2 minutes on Edmunds before being banned... http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Slack00]

Well said, well said. You have to stick with what works, and, for GM, the Corvette is one of the few things they have found that works and I think they have been wise at improving a winning formula (even though not to everyone's taste).

FYI, in the seventies (sixties?) They were considering some radical changes to the Corvette...they considered all the things you mentioned: a smaller package, a midengined layout, and even a rotary engine, (if you can believe that!). That might have been something more along your lines, if it had ever worked...but I'm pretty sure those ideas died on the vine for good reasons...

Now an Opel Speedster is a GM car you might find interesting...

I always liked the lightweight cars too...Hell, I've owned three 240s, and, as cool as the C5 is, I still miss my 240 and look at them on the road with longing. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tear.gif I still have my eye on those, as well as 2nd gen MR2s.

[scourge]

Scourge would last 2 minutes on Edmunds before being banned...



Really?!? I must go check it out.

There is nothing wrong with the current setup of the Vette. However, I was just saying it would be interesting if Chevy would bump up the power and add AWD to the Vette so it could use all of that new found power.

Look at the 700hp+ Vipers that just burn off their tires when they hit the gas. Having a Vette with monster power and the ability to put it to the ground...hell, who could be against that?

GM has the resources to do it too. Its not like Nissan was when they developed the GTR all on their own. GM has partnerships all over the globe that could help in the implementation of an AWD Vette.

Would people flock to it? Maybe not, but it would make one hell of a Vette though.

[Irie_eyes]

I tried thinking of what GM could do to get someone like me to buy their Corvette, but the only changes I can think of (mid-engine layout, smaller size, much lower weight, smaller lighter engine, etc.) would make the Corvette no longer a Corvette


Zora Arkus-Duntov was pushing for a mid-engine to compete with the european but upper management said no.
What you want, which is pretty much dead on, is the Mosler MT900, starting at $150K.

I think there already was a AWD vs. RWD discussion in Off-Topic where I do believe RWD on the track is better, while AWD is better where traction is limited.
The STS may have AWD, so any Sigma could have AWD, such as the CTS-V or the next Camaro.
An AWD option will add more weight, and may require the engine to sit higher, increasing hood height and frontal area.

[scourge]

I think the Vette would be whatever GM puts out. If GM one day wants to make the Vette MR, thn thats what the Vette will be. But, thats just my .02 cents.


I think there already was a AWD vs. RWD discussion in Off-Topic where I do believe RWD on the track is better, while AWD is better where traction is limited.



The R32 Godzilla proved that idea wrong.


The STS may have AWD, so any Sigma could have AWD, such as the CTS-V or the next Camaro.



Now, that would be an option that could attract younger buyers who don't want FWD or just RWD. Of course, the lastest photoshop of hte 2006 Camaro at that GM insider site is so fugly it makes the Asstek almost bearable!


An AWD option will add more weight, and may require the engine to sit higher, increasing hood height and frontal area.



There is a Holden Monaro AWD coupe already in Australia. I think its just a HSV concept right now but I could easily see that becoming the new Judge. 450hp+ and AWD with 6-speed tranny. Can you say domination? http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Nismo]

What you want, which is pretty much dead on, is the Mosler MT900, starting at $150K.



Almost, except that what I really might get to satisfy my performance craving is a Formula car; while to satisfy my urges on the street, I need something more civilized than the Mosler, probably something along the lines of a Ferrari Modena or Acura NSX (secondhand if the budget won't allow for a new one). The Mosler looks good on paper, but seems more like a really neat kit car, as opposed to a refined production street car. With things like safety and reliability to worry about--even the Ferrari misses the boat on the latter--I think the Mosler fares better as a track car than as a street car. Of course, if I do buy a track car, its Formula all the way. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In any case, I'm counting my chickens before they're hatched: it's going to be a few years until my next purchase. Until then, I will continue to enjoy outclassing Corvettes, Porsches, and other top contenders at my local autocrosses. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif (I'm in a bragging kind of mood because I just beat another batch of much faster sports cars--many of them on race tires--two days ago while driving my little Integra on street tires)

P.S.: Enough with the AWD already. Read my lips: no new drivetrains. The Corvette IS rear-wheel drive, and RWD it will stay, at least for the forseeable future.

[Slack00]

(I'm in a bragging kind of mood because I just beat another batch of much faster sports cars--many of them on race tires--two days ago while driving my little Integra on street tires)



Reminds me of the success of the originial Mini in the sixties...

But seriously, though, autocross is a different beast altogether...Its largely a low-speed event. The Integra is a short wheelbase car. Not to diminish your driving skills, but I would guess they didn't have the advantage in that particular arena: you did. On a real road course I think you'd have a more difficult time beating the cars with real horsepower.

Like I said, the Corvette, for instance, is an undeniably good racer. However, its got a very poor turning circle and the long hood and low seating position make it feel wider than it actually is. A Mustang GT or Corvette or 350Z isn't designed for that kind of unrealistic event. And, in the case of cars with smaller horespower ratings, the throttle is less sensitve to change and power is more easy to modulate; even slight jabs on the throttle with a V8 torque-monster can produce wheelspin.

Autocrossing is to road racing what miniature golf is to real golf: Entertaining and inolving a degree of skill, for sure, but not the real deal.

Tell me you beat some RX-7s, MR2s, or Miatas and I'll be impressed. Or tell me you beat more normal cars in a huge BMW 840ci and I'll be REALLY impressed. Or better yet, while racing an F-150.

[Nismo]

On a real road course I think you'd have a more difficult time beating the cars with real horsepower.



I don't even have to think about that. YES, it is darn hard to keep up with those guys at the track. I do enjoy gaining ground on them in the twisties, but then another blasted straight comes up and... well, 170 horsepower only goes so far. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif



The Corvette, for instance, is an undeniably good racer. However, its got a very poor turning circle and the long hood and low seating position make it feel wider than it actually is. Autocrossing is to road racing what miniature golf is to real golf: Entertaining and inolving a degree of skill, for sure, but not the real deal.



I wouldn't downplay the Corvette too much. The Z06 is often the fastest car at many autocrosses around the nation and at nationals too. It is an excellent autocross car, and routinely kicks the pants off of every other semi-affordable production-based vehicle. And while autocross is hardly the same game as road racing, it is still a fun (and cheap) way to compete against other drivers and their cars at something other than drag racing. To win at autocrossing does take skill; it's just that the consequences of screwing up aren't as severe as in road racing, so you can drive the car harder and take more risks than would be safe to do on a full track.



Tell me you beat some RX-7s, MR2s, or Miatas and I'll be impressed. Or tell me you beat more normal cars in a huge BMW 840ci and I'll be REALLY impressed. Or better yet, while racing an F-150.



I didn't even mention those because I beat those all the time. Believe it or not, Corvettes and Porsches are faster than Miatas at autocross. The Miata does well considering what it is, and they are popular in autocross because of their low cost, but with equal drivers, they get their butt handed to them by the higher class cars.

I have beaten many sports cars while driving my wife's old Nissan Sentra GXE--now there's some bragging rights!

[Irie_eyes]

The Ferrari you would have maintenance costs.
NSX...whatever tickles your pickle.
Mosler is more of a track car, but I wouldn't call it a kit car. The Ultima GTR...that's a kit car.
If I had the money to support a Modena, I'd go for the Modena, maybe those track versions. But if I didn't I'd go with the Mosler. Get the LS1 and do my own mods.
Can't afford both anyways.

[FR31]

i am against scourge's idea of AWD vette. the corvette seems to be very much about heritage, and i believe that they should stick to front engine, rear drive layout. if they have any problems putting the power down, then hey, roll out the fenders and slap some wider rubber in the back! 335's anyone? haha. but yeah the Z06 was an outstanding performer with its FR layout, and the C6 should be an improvement over that, so i think adding an AWD drivetrain might not be such a great idea. even with 500 HP, with some fatty rubber in the back it shouldn't have too hard of a time keeping the power to the ground. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Slack00]

I must admit I've only been to an SCCA autocross event once or twice...It was my understanding that horesepower doesn't play very much of a role. I had no idea the "bigger" cars did so well.

Out of curiousity, I heard someone say the S2000 was a dud at autocrosses...have you heard the same?

Hmmm...an Sentra GXE? Well, color me impressed, then. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Nismo]

The Ferrari you would have maintenance costs. NSX...whatever tickles your pickle. Mosler is more of a track car... Can't afford both anyways.



Yeah, I agree with you about all that. Speaking of money, though, did you know that Formula cars are actually very cheap? A typical Formula car costs only $20-30k used and about twice that when bought new (but don't ever buy anything new for your first track car). At the Ferrari day that I posted about earlier, there were many Ferrari 360GT LeMans racers there, and one set a new track record that day for a production-based car. As amazing as it was, it was still many seconds slower than the much-cheaper Formula Mazdas.

So, if you're serious about liking the Mosler for its all-out speed on a race track, then dream no more. For the price of a minivan, you can own a race car that's even faster. It won't be street legal, but no worries: you can use the minvian to tow the real car to the track where it belongs! http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nismo]

I must admit I've only been to an SCCA autocross event once or twice...It was my understanding that horsepower doesn't play very much of a role. I had no idea the "bigger" cars did so well.



Handling is important, but the old power-to-weight ratio is still the big factor. Of course, autocross is still just amateur 'racing' so, unlike in professional racing, the all-important factor in most autocrosses is the driver. If you attend only one autocross--or go to a bunch of them but all in a single region--then you'll probably encounter some local hot shoes--who may be driving anything from a Z06 to a Miata, or even an Integra http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/grin.gif. But if you travel to different regions, or if you compete at the Nationals (held in Topeka, KS every fall) then you'll see genuine patterns emerge.

The class structure that the SCCA has laid out (link here (http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2003/stockc.html))is a pretty good predictor of how fast a particular model of car is. C5s are in the highest stock production-car class, called SS, newer Miatas are three classes down in CS, and older Miatas are four classes down in DS.



Out of curiosity, I heard someone say the S2000 was a dud at autocrosses...have you heard the same?



S2000s kick butt at autocrosses! However, a little caveat is in order. The S2000, like all hard-edged race cars, requires real driving skills to get the most from it at autocrossing and, even more so, on a full track. A good comparison is between the S2000 and the Boxter S, both in BS class. The S2000 is probably the faster car, but the Boxter S is easier to drive at the limit, so in autocross (remember it's just an amateur sport) these two cars are usually neck and neck fighting for top honors in BS class. http://forums.freshalloy.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif