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Thread: J-Rho's STS 240 buildup (lots o' pics)

  1. #21

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    From my understanding the 91 cams are one of the biggest 240 myths, and they are acutually the same from 91 to I believe late 93 when nissan removed the intake manifold swirl butterflies.

  2. #22

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    91-93 cams are the same.

  3. #23

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    91 cams are definitely a myth.

    Cool to see someone build a sts 240...and good work so far. I think the biggest issue with 240sx's and STS is almost any significant 'real' upgrade on the car bumps it into sm or modified classes. Since most of us use our cars for daily driving (or own just one car) its too tempting to buy other parts. My car used to be sts legal and locally it was pretty competitive, that was before the onslaught of 88-91 civics though.

    Keep us updated with your results as you attend events next year!

  4. #24

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Looks nice! I definitely think you'll have a chance against the Civic hatches. While they have you on weight, you should easily have them on power and especially on TORQUE!

    RWD will definitely help at all times, and I definitely think you can get around 2550-80 lbs or so with your car.

    From what I've heard, VLSD's wear out over time, so if your car has lots of miles on it, you might want to look into getting the VLSD chunk out of a newer car with less miles(like a J30 or S14) just to make sure it's tight - as being one of the only RWD cars with some form of LSD will definitely help you out there.



    BTW - as far as a 240SX competing against E36 M3's in SM on a national level - no way. I've got lots of experience with E36 M3's as well as a setup not all that far from what a SM 240SX would run, and I don't even think they could get close. For one thing, E36 M3's really aren't that big of a car. I'd say the width is within a few inches of a 240SX at most. I really think they're about the same width honestly. Weight - the 240SX will have a slight advantage mostly because the E36 M3 has TONS of sound deadening stuff(lots of racecars get down to 25xx-26xx without much trouble with a full cage in the car, that's with not many composite panels). The M3s gain a lot from things like lightweight panels though, since their sheet metal is definitely thicker than an S13/S14. I'm also of the opinion that in real world use, their suspension design is just plain better. The 240SX's isn't bad, but IMO it's not as good as an M3's in implementation. That alone makes a big difference over what looks to be a close contest on paper.

  5. #25

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Looks nice! I definitely think you'll have a chance against the Civic hatches. While they have you on weight, you should easily have them on power and especially on TORQUE!

    RWD will definitely help at all times, and I definitely think you can get around 2550-80 lbs or so with your car.

    From what I've heard, VLSD's wear out over time, so if your car has lots of miles on it, you might want to look into getting the VLSD chunk out of a newer car with less miles(like a J30 or S14) just to make sure it's tight - as being one of the only RWD cars with some form of LSD will definitely help you out there.



    BTW - as far as a 240SX competing against E36 M3's in SM on a national level - no way. I've got lots of experience with E36 M3's as well as a setup not all that far from what a SM 240SX would run, and I don't even think they could get close. For one thing, E36 M3's really aren't that big of a car. I'd say the width is within a few inches of a 240SX at most. I really think they're about the same width honestly. Weight - the 240SX will have a slight advantage mostly because the E36 M3 has TONS of sound deadening stuff(lots of racecars get down to 25xx-26xx without much trouble with a full cage in the car, that's with not many composite panels). The M3s gain a lot from things like lightweight panels though, since their sheet metal is definitely thicker than an S13/S14. I'm also of the opinion that in real world use, their suspension design is just plain better. The 240SX's isn't bad, but IMO it's not as good as an M3's in implementation. That alone makes a big difference over what looks to be a close contest on paper.
    Def, you have to get over your M3 days ...you are driving a 240 now.

  6. #26

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    From my understanding the 91 cams are one of the biggest 240 myths, and they are acutually the same from 91 to I believe late 93 when nissan removed the intake manifold swirl butterflies.
    ^ Bingo. Someone slap the kid who thought otherwise.

  7. #27

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Looks nice! I definitely think you'll have a chance against the Civic hatches. While they have you on weight, you should easily have them on power and especially on TORQUE!

    RWD will definitely help at all times, and I definitely think you can get around 2550-80 lbs or so with your car.

    From what I've heard, VLSD's wear out over time, so if your car has lots of miles on it, you might want to look into getting the VLSD chunk out of a newer car with less miles(like a J30 or S14) just to make sure it's tight - as being one of the only RWD cars with some form of LSD will definitely help you out there.



    BTW - as far as a 240SX competing against E36 M3's in SM on a national level - no way. I've got lots of experience with E36 M3's as well as a setup not all that far from what a SM 240SX would run, and I don't even think they could get close. For one thing, E36 M3's really aren't that big of a car. I'd say the width is within a few inches of a 240SX at most. I really think they're about the same width honestly. Weight - the 240SX will have a slight advantage mostly because the E36 M3 has TONS of sound deadening stuff(lots of racecars get down to 25xx-26xx without much trouble with a full cage in the car, that's with not many composite panels). The M3s gain a lot from things like lightweight panels though, since their sheet metal is definitely thicker than an S13/S14. I'm also of the opinion that in real world use, their suspension design is just plain better. The 240SX's isn't bad, but IMO it's not as good as an M3's in implementation. That alone makes a big difference over what looks to be a close contest on paper.
    Thanks for the props. Shocks got done today, so I'll be driving up to LA tonight to pick them up. Unfortunately the Koni's aren't too bling, making them low on the oohh/ahhh per $ scale..

    Based on the assorted crap found in my car, at least the last couple owners were female who didn't drive hard, and in working on the car, the diff still seems okay. Final judgement will have to wait until I run it of course, but I do plan on getting a new viscous unit sometime next year, or as soon as I feel it starting to go.

    As for a 240 in SM, the question is largely theoretical until someone really tries it. On the question of size though, consider the 240 has a 97.4" wheelbase, while the M3's is a limo-like 106.3", a huge difference. Based on the measurements Don Nimi has done, a 240 can come in about 72.5" in the rear with 335's on 17x12's, while Vic's M3 is over 75" wide to fit the same tires.

    Not sure about the front widths, but a 9 inch wheelbase advantage and 2-3" rear width advantage is pretty good, and then we're looking at having at least a 200lb. weight advantage over the 2650 pound M3, with equal size tires. And while the M3's suspension may be superior with stock componentry, the 240 is blessed with enough rear pickup points that I'm convinced there's flexibily enough to make something work back there, though it may take some $$ in the form of custom spindles and whatnot.

    But for now I won't agree or disagree on the car's potential, as no one really will know until they try it, as I'm doing now for STS. I plan to run the car in ST for the next few years, with an eye towards SM in the future. Maybe in the meantime Nissan will build an LS2-beating lightweight V8 that bolts in, making the SM motor equation that much easier...

  8. #28

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Def, you have to get over your M3 days ...you are driving a 240 now.

    I wish I were driving it - that bish likes to lounge on jackstands more often than not.


    I actually daily drive a '98 M3 Sedan right now, so the M3 days are back. I'm actually debating putting some Tein S-Tech springs on it(already has Koni yellows), but it is my "daily beater" so I'm trying to balance ride comfort vs. handling.

    I will say that an M3 is just much more composed than a stiffly sprung 240. Most of it probably comes from the fact that an E36 M3's chassis is about one billion times stiffer than an S13's. Seriously - it's an absolutely huge difference stepping from one to the other. My S13 creaks and groans at the slightest incline, while the M3 feels like a tank in comparison(not just due to the weight). The S13 is faster though, so it has that going for it.

  9. #29

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    I got the welded DC Sports F&R strut bars that will hopefully help a bit with stiffness, though I know it's going to be less than ideal. Not that the Civics are bank vaults anyway...

    Hopefully these will help a bit in the "composure" category-

  10. #30

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Mmm koni 28 series.. Nice. What spring rates?

  11. #31

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Mmm koni 28 series.. Nice. What spring rates?
    There are a few details of the setup that I'd rather not share, lest somebody else (try to) follow in my footsteps; spring rates, shock valving, alignment, and sway bars are a few of those things. Plus, I fully expect that I'll be playing with lots of different rates in the front and rear as I get things dialed in, so what's going on the car today might not be what's on it next week. I imagine it'll be a few months before I even begin to settle on spring rates, alignment, and shock/bar settings.

  12. #32

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    "The kid" who said that was me and I don't apreciate that kind of comment.

    Feeling protected behind that screen hu.....


    Whatever...
    I was just trying to bring my 2cents in, because shops such as pdm racing refer to the 91 cams : "however our Stage II cams are TRULY 2 stages hotter than even the 1991 cams" (Pdm-racing.com)- and on other forums such as nico's a lot of people swap for those cams and are happy with it. (altought mainly on S14's)

    Now if that can bring a few horses to somebody trying to get as much as he can out of his car without breaking the rules - then I will suggest it.

  13. #33

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Looks great J-Rho. Best of luck.

  14. #34

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Mentioning NICO isn't going to win you any points either, now you're just admitting you've been known to feast on raw sewage if you surf that forum.
    Internet is a great source of information when you know how to use it, my freind. And that means reading from different websites and not being elitiste and procreating on a single forum masturbating your ego because you know everything that is going to be asked everyday and complain about people not using the search.

    If on the other hand you take a look around and open yourself to new opinions you might start learning more.

    I know it is scarry to "surf" unknown places but I suppose you are not 5 and a dark room does not scare you anymore.

    For example I learned on nico that you can bump your compression up (for KA n/a people) using Ka24E pistons in a KA24DE engine requiring no machinery. I never heard of that on Fresh Alloy or it hasn't been discussed in a long period of time.

    Now please stop being useless and post something other than the last row student comment, empty of any thoughts.

    Oh and what do you have to say about PDM comment on the 91 cams ?

  15. #35

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Def, you have to get over your M3 days ...you are driving a 240 now.

    I wish I were driving it - that bish likes to lounge on jackstands more often than not.


    I actually daily drive a '98 M3 Sedan right now, so the M3 days are back. I'm actually debating putting some Tein S-Tech springs on it(already has Koni yellows), but it is my "daily beater" so I'm trying to balance ride comfort vs. handling.

    I will say that an M3 is just much more composed than a stiffly sprung 240. Most of it probably comes from the fact that an E36 M3's chassis is about one billion times stiffer than an S13's. Seriously - it's an absolutely huge difference stepping from one to the other. My S13 creaks and groans at the slightest incline, while the M3 feels like a tank in comparison(not just due to the weight). The S13 is faster though, so it has that going for it.
    So the M3 days are back...I agree with you that at times I feel like the car is going to fall apart. BTW, what is the weight for the lightest M3 nationally competing in SM?

  16. #36

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    For example I learned on nico that you can bump your compression up (for KA n/a people) using Ka24E pistons in a KA24DE engine requiring no machinery. I never heard of that on Fresh Alloy or it hasn't been discussed in a long period of time.
    It was talked about, ages ago.


    Oh and what do you have to say about PDM comment on the 91 cams ?
    How is it any different than anyone else being wrong.

  17. #37

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Last I heard Vic was in the mid to low 2600's, which should be the lightest of the E36 M3's, though Tunnell's car should be right there.

    Was up till about 4am last night putting her together...still haven't driven yet, gotta do some test driving and a wash before heading down to the event at the Q.

    I'll post some pics later today...

  18. #38

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    Had an okay debut today. A little over a second off the STS pace of 2005 National Champ Ken Motonishi and 4th place finisher Leslie Cohen. Alignment is totally messed up, wheels are too heavy, tires unshaven, and the ride height up in the clouds. Not to mention the tired old motor and stock ECU...(Is that enough excuses? )

    Here's a few more dark pics of the suspension going together, and the strut bar modification. The bar will be receiving some additional reinforcement in the future...

    Hopefully I'll be able to find another second in setup...




  19. #39

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    great thread. i've been wondering about the potential of the 240sx platform.

    question: why the strut bar modification?

  20. #40

    Re: J-Rho\'s STS 240 buildup (lots o\' pics)

    The ABS cars have a different master cylinder/reservoir configuration, such that the rear DC bar crosses paths with the reservoir. You can see it was notched and re-welded closed. I'll probably do a couple more reinforcement plates and then get it powdercoated...

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