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Thread: It's Time for Infiniti to Put Up or Shut Up

  1. #1

    It's Time for Infiniti to Put Up or Shut Up

    https://jalopnik.com/its-time-for-in...-up-1829389286

    Great article by jalopnik. Infiniti has to act quick or call quits. They spent tons of money developing an engine (variable compression) no body asked for, 98% of average buyers of the QX50 or any other car using the engine wont even know what it is. You either give the buyer some power or extremely good fuel economy with reliability. A great point the article makes is that Infiniti has stated that they are going all electric with their cars within a few years. Then why the heck build that engine in the first place. The Koreans are going to walk all over Infiniti if they don't act soon.

  2. #2
    Haven't read the article, but in regards to the VC-Turbo, they plan utilize it in the electrified powertrains. And I think we should remember that this is the first iteration of the tech. Imagine as they continue to refine it and get more economy and power out of it. And remember Nissan will utilize it as well. I doubt the Altima will be the only Nissan with the engine.

    As far as Infiniti's future, I am on pins and needles and don't know what to expect. I am finding myself intrigued by electric cars. Can't say I want a fully electric car, but if there is something that can reduce fuel consumption and give me gobs of power too, I'm all for it.

    I am just hoping they at least pull something like the Juke R and offer a super limited hand built production car for a few people willing to pay the price. I just think all these people crying "Build it. Put up or shut up" aren't going to actually buy the car... And Infiniti knows that. But at the very minimum, I do believe SOMETHING will come of this project. They have invested a lot of time and money and this seems a little more advanced and in-depth than the Eau Rouge. If this car isn't built it does seem something will be heavily influenced by this project.
    My Opin.

    Former: 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5SE Sedan 6MT [Totaled :( ]
    Current: 2013 Infiniti G37S 6MT Sedan

  3. #3
    "Black S"? Seriously? Who names these things?
    If someone blows up a school with a bomb they go after the bomber ... if someone shoots up a school they go after the gun.

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    Political correctness is cowardice wrapped in a lie.
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    2013 Acura RDX Tech, 30% tints, hardwired Escort 8500 X50

    2011 Infiniti M56, 30% ceramic tint, hard-wired Escort 8500 X50, LED cabin and trunk lighting - traded!


  4. #4
    Technically its the name of the project... But I imagine if it goes into production it would be the Q60 Black Sport, keeping in line with the Red Sport. I kinda like the idea of the whole "colored" sport thing. Right now the regular sport models get a silver S on the badge so in my head it would be a 3 tier thing... Silver Sport, Red Sport and Black Sport. I do think they need to get rid of the 400 aspect of the current Red Sport 400 name.
    My Opin.

    Former: 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5SE Sedan 6MT [Totaled :( ]
    Current: 2013 Infiniti G37S 6MT Sedan

  5. #5
    BMW just debuted a show-stopping new 3-series at the Paris Motor Show the same week as Infiniti's showing of a second Black-S concept. Nissan is so dysfunctional and apathetic toward the Infiniti brand that BMW will have cycled through two entire generations of 3- and 5- series before the Q50 and Q70 get their first redesigns under the new names and finally move on from the 20-year old FM platform. Just find the posts of Carmaker1 on various large auto forums; he's been in the industry his whole life. He says Nissan corporate is a mess and there is NOTHING new coming from Infiniti until 2021. The new 3 will be getting its midlife LCI by then and we'll already have a redesigned C-class, A4, and Lexus IS! So stupid....

    Infiniti had better put up real soon or shut the heck up and become the FWD, CVT crossover CUV brand that we all know Ghosn wants them to be. Stop tormenting we enthusiasts!

    The Black S concept looks great but at the same time will it ever actually go on sale? Meanwhile I find it very difficult to criticize the new G20 3-series. The damn thing looks like a modernized E39 and now with growth creep is the same size as that old 5-series. If they just fix the stupid electric steering we could possibly have a future classic here, and one that could actually be reliable looking at BM-Vee's recent record.

    Soon there will be M3 and M4 versions of this. Anyone want to bet there won't be a production Black S anywhere in sight to compete with them?





    This whole car is pretty much what I had hoped the next Q50 would look like, so Infiniti is going to get left behind AGAIN.
    Last edited by JayG35; 10-07-2018 at 03:45 AM.

  6. #6
    I'm not really feeling the new 3-Series...
    My Opin.

    Former: 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5SE Sedan 6MT [Totaled :( ]
    Current: 2013 Infiniti G37S 6MT Sedan

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by NissLover View Post
    I'm not really feeling the new 3-Series...
    I am. It looks like a German redesign of the Q50 using the E39's proportions as a base.

    You wouldn't catch BMW dead using a 20-year-old chassis and a 10-year-old transmission in a new model either.

    Nissan is so mismanaged, especially financially, that they have to re-skin the same car over and over for decades. And despite this, the quality and reilaibility still drop (last couple years of redesigns notwithstanding). This is exactly like 70s-00s GM.

    They can keep this up and go bankrupt, or learn from companies like BMW and Toyota.

    Speaking of which, it's retarded that we are going to see a new Supra after a 20 year hiatus before the Z is redesigned.

  8. #8
    They have fallen so behind in all segments that i can't see them rebound any longer. The brand recognition is failing even more so and enthusiasts are loosing interest quickly. The automotive market is moving so fast with so many good choices out there in every segment that no manufacturer can afford to do what Infiniti is doing. The brand was finally building a nice identity for themselves in the mid 2000's when the first generation G and FX were introduced. They were great performing cars with unique styling and reliable at the same time. Yes, the interiors suffered a bit but considering what the rest of the manufactures were putting out their at the time, it didn't really hurt them. Some F.kN idiot decided that they needed to change things around and ever since screwed up the brand. Products are stale, brand recognition is non existence.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NismoS224 View Post
    They have fallen so behind in all segments that i can't see them rebound any longer. The brand recognition is failing even more so and enthusiasts are loosing interest quickly. The automotive market is moving so fast with so many good choices out there in every segment that no manufacturer can afford to do what Infiniti is doing. The brand was finally building a nice identity for themselves in the mid 2000's when the first generation G and FX were introduced. They were great performing cars with unique styling and reliable at the same time. Yes, the interiors suffered a bit but considering what the rest of the manufactures were putting out their at the time, it didn't really hurt them. Some F.kN idiot decided that they needed to change things around and ever since screwed up the brand. Products are stale, brand recognition is non existence.
    As much as it pains me, I have to agree. Quality is not what it used to be & it's a big yawn looking around the showroom floor these days.
    Just nothing exciting in any segment of the market anymore It's like they peaked with the G's & FX's and then lost their mojo.
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    2009 M45s Obsidian/Graphite - Sport, Tech, Adv Tech, Wood, Spoiler
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  10. #10
    This is f-in' tragic. I've had enough:

    October sales



    3k cars and nearly 9k trucks. The G alone would sell more than the entire non-SUV lineup of Infiniti sells now. Q50 and Q60 combined sold less than half what the G37 sedan alone did 5 years ago. Q70 is barely 300 like the Lexus GS.

    Discontinue the sedan lineup and sell only the CUVs with CVTs and the reskinned Patrol QX80. That's all that anyone wants to buy, and it's all that Infiniti cares enough to update and put serious effort into (it's a self-perpetuating, vicious cycle).

    Nissan has put more effort into the Altima and Maxima in the past 8 years than that have into the Q50 and Q70. They've put ZERO effort into the FX->QX70 which is now gone.

    The game is up. We know where your "passion" lies and what you want to chase Nissan. Give up your sport sedan and sportscar badge and go full-on into volume CUVs with snowmobile trannies and 2.0Ts. Leave the real enthusiast cars (family-oriented or otherwise) to the Germans and Lexus. They actually still know how to build them and give enough of a damn to invest in production models, not endless hyped-up concepts.

  11. #11
    Some F.kN idiot decided that they needed to change things around and ever since screwed up the brand.
    That F.kN idiot is CARLOS GHOSN.

    Even if one doesn't like Johan De Nysschen, who brought him in there because he couldn't find any phucks to give about Infiniti himself? Could it be GHOSN? :D At least JdN wanted to bring us a real M3 killer, and he himself has criticized Ghosn for killing the project (and rightfully so!).

    And before anyone gets on me for being too harsh and not "recognizing" that he "saved" Nissan, let me reiterate what CarMaker1, forum-surfing industry insider extraordinaire, has stated:

    Ghosn is a one-trick pony cost-cutter. Austerity is his bag. He came to a company that was on a one-way ticket to insolvency and trimmed it down. Wisely, he listened to some advisors and kept some pricey, passionate projects that were in the pipeline going. Projects that had potential: the FM platform cars (Z, G, M, FX), the GT-R. The continued improvements to the VQ and new VR series V6 motors. All of this was in development already before Ghosn took the reins and it has been confirmed by CMK1. So I don't wanna hear anymore "bu- bu- but Carlos gave us the G, the Z, the GT-R!" No he didn't! But to his credit he didn't abort them like he has every enticing project in development since. Eau Rouge and Q80, anyone?

    Ghosn saved the company financially and rode the eventual success of some exciting projected models that he allowed to be released with minimal meddling (CMK1 DID mention that the original G was to have a nicer interior with materials similar to the Q45, but that Ghosn made it cheaper- HA!). But he is not an enthusiat's CEO, and more importantly, he's shown to have allowed Nissan to be stagnant and dysfunctional for the bulk of his tenure.

    People wonder why I've grown to despise him after 2010. Any Nissan fan (or former fan) should!
    Last edited by JayG35; 11-02-2018 at 04:16 AM.

  12. #12
    You guys are being REALLY dramatic! Lol.

    Infiniti is suffering the same fate as anyone! Cars are just down overall. That's the market. Who can you blame for that? Besides, for a declining segment, up until recently the Q50 was holding pretty steady in its volume. It JUST became subject to the decline, and is only down by just under 9%.... compare that to the 3-Series, which is down 20%. And why should we be mad because they sold more SUVs than cars... that's what people want! Sadly.

    The fact is, this was their best October ever... how is that a bad thing?

    After my rental of the Q60 Red Sport, I am SO over what the media has put out about Infiniti losing its sporting edge. I call BS! That car was a freaking blast and I would LOVE to have one. It handily out handles my G37S!

    I make no excuses for where Infiniti lacks, really the infotainment tech is the biggest thing. They have high-tech and powerful engines, look damn good, drive well and are well built (have any of you been in the QX50, it's FRIGGIN AMAZING!!). Is every aspect class leading, no but I really don't think they deserve the beating they take in the press, which seems to want every car to be some super handling computer. I'd never buy a CVT, but I am tired of hearing the complaints of enthusiasts about them. They are here to stay, and it's not just Nissan/Infiniti.

    The QX30 though.... that's a huge flop, at least here in the states. But they put no marketing into the car what-so-ever.

    As the days go by I get more and more intrigued about high performance electrified cars, and it seems Infiniti may be meeting me where I'll be in 2-3 years. So I am still optimistic. Nervous about the whole FWD thing, but still optimistic looking at what Volvo is doing with their FWD platforms.
    Last edited by NissLover; 11-02-2018 at 01:19 PM.
    My Opin.

    Former: 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5SE Sedan 6MT [Totaled :( ]
    Current: 2013 Infiniti G37S 6MT Sedan

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NissLover View Post
    Infiniti is suffering the same fate as anyone! Cars are just down overall. That's the market.
    No, you're sugar coating. The market in general has shifted to CUVs but a great many sedan model lines do exceedingly well. The focus on CUVs has done a couple things... it has forced a lot of weaker sedan entries out of the market; what's happened to Ford and now Infiniti are prime examples. It has also given lazy, cheap, volume-chasing brands (again, Ford, Nissan and Infiniti are EXHIBIT A) a rationale to not even try with their passenger cars and put their entire focus on light trucks. It requires minimal effort and investment for maximal return on investment. Which makes good business sense if you have no confidence that you can build competitive sedans and luxury cars that stand out.

    Infiniti's failure to build a strong brand with a reliable following has really come to bite them as well. This was mentioned my NismoS224 and kudos to him for recognizing the trend. You can still build and sell a ton of cars, but not medicore ones. Once your customer base smells that you're mailing it in, they are gone faster than ever now with the CUV craze. Not to mention more competitive brands than ever and even Korean luxury (Genesis?). Aren't we arguing how mediocre Nissans and Infinitis (save the Maxima and I suppose new Altima) have gotten in this decade? This is what I'm saying. Nissan is throwing in the towel because they've lost the touch and they know it.

    BMW sold 15,322 passenger cars to 7,940 light trucks. (they sold 1.9 times more cars than trucks)

    Mercedes: 13,605 cars versus 13,932 light trucks. A nice, even split. (the sold 1.02 times more trucks than cars)

    Lexus is a lesser brand than those two but even they came closer to a split than Infiniti with 7,615 cars and 15,101 trucks. (they sold twice as many trucks as cars)

    Infiniti sold three times as many trucks as cars.

    The CUV trend is strong but not strong enough to eliminate the market for sedans, especially premium ones. It is separating the men from the boys and weeding out brands that suck at making sedans and coupes. We know where Nissan/Infiniti stand. Again, this is tragic because in the 90s and 00s they built quite a few of the industry's best sport sedans and sports cars.
    Last edited by JayG35; 11-03-2018 at 01:33 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JayG35 View Post
    No, you're sugar coating. The market in general has shifted to CUVs but a great many sedan model lines do exceedingly well. The focus on CUVs has done a couple things... it has forced a lot of weaker sedan entries out of the market; what's happened to Ford and now Infiniti are prime examples. It has also given lazy, cheap, volume-chasing brands (again, Ford, Nissan and Infiniti are EXHIBIT A) a rationale to not even try with their passenger cars and put their entire focus on light trucks.
    I completely agree with Jay. The sedan market is not dead its still very strong for any body that wants to take it serious. Here is an article from Krueger himself admitting to exactly what Jay said. The LA times did an interview with Krueger and here are a few quotes from him:

    As Infiniti prepares to celebrate its 30th anniversary next year, Krueger is focusing the company on two main areas: the consumer shift from sedans to so-called crossover sport utility vehicles and larger SUVs, and to an all-electric future.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...029-story.html

    Some more good news. Infiniti according to Krueger in this article "https://www.caranddriver.com/news/infiniti-fx-prototype-detroit" is working on a "Prototype 10" obviously a concept. Like we haven't seen enough BS concepts that never made it to production. Correct me if I'm wrong, who the F cares for any concept that you might come up with when you have no following. Especially since the last 5 or so concepts never made it to production.

    The statements being made are out of desperation, its their final straw. They completely understand the fact that they have screwed the brand up and that fixing it is going to take alot longer then the time they are willing to commit to the company. They figure lets jump on the electrification and try to grab the market for a few years before everybody else beats them to it.

  15. #15
    I leased my Audi for about $75 more per month than my M56. $25K sticker price difference though. Night and day difference. I did drive the Infiniti prior to renting it but in the real world this car sucked big time. Zero handling. I know they have done much better with their lesser vehicles but I'm not impressed with the brand at the moment. They have little to offer except for the Q50-60 or their regular folks crossovers. They just don't compete in the higher end market. I'm looking lower next time but I plan not to ever except crap again.

    By the way I thought my M45 was pretty good.

  16. #16
    I'll just leave this here.

    2018 Premium Entry-level Cars Q2 sales


    Yea... it's just an Infiniti problem.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    My Opin.

    Former: 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5SE Sedan 6MT [Totaled :( ]
    Current: 2013 Infiniti G37S 6MT Sedan

  17. #17
    I see your point NL.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NissLover View Post
    I'll just leave this here.

    2018 Premium Entry-level Cars Q2 sales


    Yea... it's just an Infiniti problem.
    So is your argument that Infiniti isn't doing something very wrong when they used to enjoy entry-luxury sedan sales volume close to that which the C-class and 3-series enjoy now, despite their declines? The Q50 was a turning point, and not a good one. It is where Infiniti officially jumped the shark. It drove and performed worse than the car it replaced, and didn't amp up the luxury quotient enough, with only a marginally better interior and an infotainment system so half-baked that we all preferred the G37's low-res touch screen (it actually worked!).

    Your data here is cherry-picked. Look at the title-- it's one quarter of 2018! The C and 3er did not start to see massive losses until now. They are STILL destroying all Asian competition despite losing customers to its showroom mates the GLC and X3.

    The Q50's best year in USA sales was 2016, when it sold 44,007. In its final year as the standalone entry-level sedan, 2013, the G sold 57,878. Go deeper back into the lifecycles of both generations of G, and you see it topping 60,000 in many years. The peak for the first-gen G35 was 71,177 in 04. The second-gen helped it hit its zenith of 71,809 in 2007. Mind you these numbers were still only about half what the 3-series was pushing back then. The 3er has indeed lost half its volume over time, but not nearly as quickly as the G-->Q50 and it had the luxury of a much higher position to fall from. And again, BMW is still selling more cars than SUVs in the USA, unlike Infiniti, Acura or Lexus.

    Infiniti's entry in this segment lost most of its volume during the changeover from G to Q50. It was a disastrous redesign for the brand, and a bad time to rename the model considering the old one was widely regarded as a better product. Sure, the Q50 and 60 are drop-dead gorgeous, they aren't "bad" in any way (though the first year 2014 Q50 was so plagued with bugs you could argue it as a "bad" car), and the VR engine is the best V6 around. It's competition just does everything better. We don't have to rehash the dated platform, transmission, and Infotainment display/logic, but that's all continuing to harm this model. The Q50 was seen as half-baked and dated in 2013. In 2018 the VR is its slick looks are the only saving graces.

    Nissan better stop half-assing everything. And I'm sure they will, to avoid another brush with bankruptcy. Only their solution won't be the kind that I and many of us here will loike. It'll look a lot like Ford's solution to lagging sales and brand equity in its line of increasingly half-baked sedans.

    Infiniti will be a brand of FWD-based, 4-cylinder and plug-in CUVs. They'll keep producing showcars like the Q60 Black S and Q Inspiration to attract the gullible into showrooms full QX30s, QX50s and QX60s. Gun to my head I'd say their sedans are all gone by 2025. Carmaker1 says the next-gen V38 Q50 is in development, but then again so were the next Z and Q70, until they were cancelled last year.

    This is just who Nissan is in the 20-teens. They bear no resemblance to the carmaker they were in from the 70s-00s.

  19. #19
    The chart is sales are Q1 and Q2.

    Besides the steering, the Q50 DOES NOT perform worse than the G37. I've said it once and I'll say it again, the Q50/Q60 is the more competent car in regards to handling. The G37 FEELS better, but its not more capable. I'm not going to go into depth about that again, as I have plenty of times written about the comparisons of my car vs. the Q50/Q60. And again, I say BS to all of the press. I just watched Redlines Reviews of the 370Z NISMO and he complained about there being too much vibrations and the overall rawness in the Z. Yet people are whining that the Q50/60's lack feel. THEY LISTENED TO YOU!!! Make up your minds. DAS and the overall filtering out of feel IS Infiniti's fault for putting too much consideration into what the press was saying. But they did not put out a poor handling car as many try to make it seem. My rental of the Q60 drove that nail in the coffin.

    I don't see how BMWs and MBs sales decline in this class is any better than Infiniti's. And you mention falling from a position... the Q50 is still #3 in sales in the class... so I don't get or agree with your points there. Yes, they did gamble away sales with the name change. Been there, its done, lets get over it. The car STILL sells pretty well, market conditions considered, and is in the top 3 of the class. I DON'T get how thats considered a failure. But I'm sugarcoating, so...

    And seriously... what does it matter that they're selling more SUVs than cars? That's what people are buying. So...

    And where is this leap coming from that they'll be the next Ford... WHAT!??! They JUST redesigned the Altima, showing commitment by adding AWD, they're refreshing the Maxima. About to launch a redesigned Sentra, and despite the decline of the overall segment, still sit at the top of the subcompact segment, so the Versa isn't going anywhere. So HOW are they Ford, when they made it perfectly clear they are still committed to cars. Did they misstep in areas with the Altima and Sentra, yes. But the new Altima is a huge step in the right direction. If that is any sign of whats to come with the next Sentra, I'm excited. Lets not forget it's climb in sales these last couple of years. And the current gen Maxima has been good from jump. Polarizing, but damn good.

    And to be honest, I don't get why people say that Ford made crappy cars and that's why they didn't sell... from what I could tell the Focus and Fusion were pretty good cars. Leaps and bounds better than the cars that preceded them(cringeworthy). So I'm not sure why they didn't sell as they were supposed to. Ford, stupidly, made it clear they didn't want to figure it out. Not going to put much thought into it, because I might regret as I am starting for even putting this much into this response. Lol.
    My Opin.

    Former: 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5SE Sedan 6MT [Totaled :( ]
    Current: 2013 Infiniti G37S 6MT Sedan

  20. #20
    I have not read every paragraph above but I recommend marriage counseling or divorce immediately.

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